Assessing My Big Differences with ADP, Pt. 1

I recently released my top 125 starting pitchers for 2020 and I couldn’t believe that nobody had a single question about them and everyone who saw them found them to be perfect top to bottom. OK, dumb joke. Anyway, I appreciate everyone getting in the comments and discussing the rankings with me. I’m still responding to questions and comments if you want to ask me about someone in the rankings.

Today I want to look the biggest differences between my rankings and the early average draft position (ADP) information at the NFBC in their Draft Champions leagues (50-round draft-and-hold format). On their list, they group all pitchers together so I took out the relievers making it more of a 1:1 comparison with my SP ranks. This will be a two-part piece with the first being the pitchers where I’m higher.

10 Where I’m Higher

Jeff Samardzija, SF | 107th SP in ADP; 52nd SP by me

I wouldn’t even say I’m a huge fan of The Shark, but his current ADP seems like a great price for someone who finished 33rd among SP on Razzball’s Player Rater last year. Even if you don’t fully buy the 3.52 ERA, he offers high volume with a strong WHIP. At the very least, he has Oracle Park protecting him for half of his starts. It’s a boring investment, but I’ll gladly take him outside the top 100 SPs.

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Ross Stripling, LAD | 89th; 46th

Stripling opened 2019 in the Dodgers rotation but was promptly removed in late-April and made just nine more starts the rest of the way. I understand those who are nervous about his outlook, but I’m thinking he should at least open the season in the rotation again with Hyun-Jin Ryu out and no one added to their pool of starters except Jimmy Nelson, who is more likely to be eased into starting.

Obviously, Walker Buehler, Clayton Kershaw, and Kenta Maeda (at least until August when they will start manipulating his IP) have spots and then Stripling, Nelson, Julio Urias, Dustin May, Tony Gonsolin are fighting for the remaining two spots. I lean toward Stripling and Urias getting the spots, at least initially. Stripling has quietly been very good the last two seasons. Of the 128 pitchers with at least 200 innings since 2018, he’s 17th in ERA (3.22), 29th in WHIP (1.17), and tied for the 9th-highest K% at 26%.

We will no doubt get clarification on his role as Spring Training progresses, but in the meantime, I’m taking him at a severely discounted rate in leagues drafting during January and February.

Jordan Lyles, TEX | 117th; 79th

It was a weird 2019 for Lyles. All was going well in Pittsburgh as he took a 3.09 ERA into June and promptly reeled off a 7-start run of a 10.00 ERA. That didn’t stop the Brewers from wanting him back, though, and he immediately recaptured his form upon returning. Lyles closed the year with a 2.45 ERA and 1.11 WHIP in 58.7 innings of work thanks to his curveball and some very good fortune (.225 BABIP, 88% LOB). I think we’ll see something like a 4.10 ERA/1.20 WHIP from Lyles as I expect the new Rangers stadium to play rather neutral thanks to the retractable roof cutting into the severe climate effects.

Wade Miley, CIN | 120th; 83rd

Look, I understand that Samardzija, Lyles, and Miley are pretty boring picks which is part of why they fall down the ADP ladder, but they were all top 60 SPs last year. Miley could’ve had an even better season had it ended on August 31st as he took a 3.06 ERA and 1.22 WHIP into September. He then dropped a 16.68 ERA bomb on fantasy managers in September, pushing his season ERA to 3.98! Miley rejuvenated his career in 2018 with the Brewers under the tutelage of pitching coach Derek Johnson.

Guess where Johnson is now??

The two will be reunited in Cincinnati and I think Miley will have another useful season. If he can avoid a meltdown month like his September, we could feasibly see something like a 3.50 ERA and 1.25 WHIP, but even a 4.10 ERA/1.30 WHIP combo plays in 15-league formats.

Aaron Civale, CLE | 84th; 58th

I know, I know, I won’t stop talking about him. Honestly, I’ll just direct you here, here, and here for my thoughts on Civale.

Dylan Cease, CWS | 90th; 66th

Cease is another arm I’ve highlighted as a favorite already his offseason. The one-time big prospect showed flashes in his 73 innings last year, though you might’ve missed it if you just look at his final numbers: 5.79 ERA, 1.55 WHIP. The 24-year old arm has premium heat (96.5 mph), a strong slider, and workable changeup. He needs to avoid the meltdown starts – like the 13 ER he allowed in 7 IP against the Twins.

Many young arms struggle getting through a lineup multiple times, but Cease had the opposite issue. He got better as the game went on: .976 OPS the 1st time through, .831 2nd time, and .631 3rd time. Perhaps something in his preparation needs to improve so he shave down his 9.32 ERA in the first two innings. Cease’s cost makes him a 5th-6th starter which is exactly the area where you start taking your gambles who could pay off big. Sign me up for some Cease shares.

Jake Odorizzi, MIN | 53rd; 35th

Speaking of times through the order, the Twins figured out that Odorizzi experienced a major dip in production after the first two times. For his career, he has a .640 OPS the 1st time through, .694 the 2nd time, and .850 the third time. So Minnesota decided to just limit how often he made it to that 3rd time and in the process, they found themselves a really strong mid-rotation arm. His times through trend held steady in 2019: .610, .629, and .883, but it was his best mark the 3rd time through in three years (.906 and 1.159 in 2017-18).

Outside of a bumpy July (9.35 ERA in his first four starts of the month), Odorizzi’s season was excellent. Lift those four starts and he had a 2.80 ERA in his other 26 starts. Of course, those starts count, but it highlights how a small blip can push an ERA from amazing to good. Frankly, I’d gladly take a repeat from Odorizzi and that’s definitely worth more than the 53rd SP off the board.

Frankie Montas, OAK | 38th; 21st

You may be struck by such a high ranking for someone without even 100 IP in the majors let alone a full season, but I love Montas’ trajectory and I’m excited about his 2020. His evolution from thrower to pitcher along with the addition of a wicked splitter now leaves him with a three-pitch mix highlighted by top shelf velo (96.6 mph) and a killer slider that netted a 9.6 pitch value in just 96 innings of work. There’s no reason the 27-year old righty can’t log 30+ starts this season and pick up where his 2019 breakout left off.

Max Fried, ATL | 42nd; 25th

I’m quite excited about the 26-year old lefty in 2020. He added a slider in 2019 and had multiple extended runs of success, though they were regularly interrupted by a 5 ER outing or two. He had six such outings among his 31 starts (as well as a 1 IP/4 ER dud at the Dodgers) which pushed his ERA north of 4.00 while his .336 BABIP saddled him with a 1.33 WHIP.

He’s had a high BABIP throughout his 225.3 MLB innings (.333) so there are no guarantees that he improves there, but with two plus breaking balls and a useful fastball, I don’t think it’s out of bounds to see some potential gains there. There’s some huge upside here and I could see Fried around a 3.30 ERA/1.20 WHIP with a strikeout-per-inning at his best.

Joe Musgrove, PIT | 60th; 45th

Of course, I’m not quitting Musgrove. He didn’t have the breakout I was hoping for in 2019, but he still offered a positive WHIP and set a new high in innings at 170.3 over 31 starts plus a relief outing. He doesn’t walk anyone, has quality swing-and-miss stuff that could push his strikeout rate up, and still carries major upside. The Pirates cleaned house and I’m hoping they change their pitching strategies and allow pitchers to lean on their best pitches instead of just spamming fastballs (often two-seamers) as Ray Searage encouraged when he was at the helm.





Paul is the Editor of Rotographs and Content Director for OOTP Perfect Team. Follow Paul on Twitter @sporer and on Twitch at sporer.

28 Comments
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Rob MooreMember since 2025
6 years ago

“and Kenta Maeda (at least until August when they will start manipulating his IP)” – I guess this is the standard woke media take now, but honestly, I seriously doubt the Dodgers care all that much about saving the money Maeda could make in incentives if he atually earned a post season starting role. He’s never been one of their top 4 starters heading into the post season, and he’s a real weapon in the bullpen in a way that Ryu and Stripling never were.

NL Rules
6 years ago
Reply to  Rob Moore

I think the manipulation of his innings at this point is about keeping him healthy (unless somehow any bonuses Maeda earns would impact the luxury tax limit?) so he is available to be the bullpen weapon late. With the list of starters vs relievers in LA at the moment – they might need Maeda more in the pen this year (despite the addition of Treinen) during the regular season….either him or 1-2 of the other potential SPs.

RonnieDobbs
6 years ago
Reply to  Rob Moore

Maeda is often a top three SP throughout the season but he sure as heck wears down by the latter part of the season. Its not simple manipulation – he really looks like a different guy past some point. He was not effective out of the pen in 2018 so I wouldn’t call hm a weapon. I think his value to the team is regular season starts and I actually think LAD handles him about right… outside of some really quick hooks in his starts which doesn’t seem to preserve his long term health. What is woke media? Sounds like an oxymoron….

manormachine
6 years ago

Do we have actual documented evidence about specific pitching coaches and reunification? It sounds like you are playing a hunch with Miley but this also sounds like a thing that could be a Fangraphs article…

Craftcj
6 years ago
Reply to  manormachine

The reunion of Johnson with Sonny Gray worked last year for the Reds. Perhaps more relevant for Miley, though, is that he learned he was tipping pitches last September and has taken steps to solve the problem.

Travis LMember since 2016
6 years ago
Reply to  Craftcj

Also not that informative, because it doesn’t acknowledge situations where the reunion happened and the pitcher got worse. Selection bias is a cruel warper of perception.

NoHayBanda
6 years ago

Extreme fly ball pitchers who “don’t give up homers” give me indigestion. (Reference: Odorizzi.)

carterMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  NoHayBanda

So it is a fact that flyball hitters hit better against ground ball pitchers and ground ball hitters hit better against fly ball pitchers (something to do with batpath) so maybe with the whole fly ball revolution, fly ball pitchers are going to be where it is at? I mean, I am not sure on this, but it makes some sense logically.

TroutmanMember since 2025
6 years ago

Where are we on the Mitch Keller train

RonnieDobbs
6 years ago
Reply to  Paul Sporer

I like him a lot. This seems like the year to buy. Everyone who has owned him is sick of him.

Mike
6 years ago

Look at Musgrove’s monthly fastball velocity last year. Same thing as his last full season in 2017. If you can figure out why he throws 92-93 in April instead of the 95+ in Sept, he’ll have the breakout.

AphexGwynn
6 years ago
Reply to  Paul Sporer

Musgrove baffles me. He’s an average pitcher (if I’m reading the metrics right), but he can’t throw an out pitch with runners on. I stopped watching his games because the dread when he hit 2 strikes became overwhelming. Then I dropped him.

That’s what my eyes saw, at least.

direwolf75
6 years ago

I appreciate your consistent interest in Civale. Would you prefer Civale ($8) in a 10 team NL only 5×5 Roto league or Edman ($8) in a 10 team AL only 5×5 Roto league? Thought would be interesting to pick your brain on hitter vs pitcher who help in different categories across different leagues 🙂

Edwards KingsMember since 2019
6 years ago

I have always like Samardzija. But I am discounting him due to his age (35), the fact his fastball is on a two year downward trend, loss of groud ball tilt, and swinging strike rate has fallen and can’t get up. Just looks like a pitcher on decline.

RonnieDobbs
6 years ago
Reply to  Paul Sporer

He is a different guy now than he was a few years ago. That injury plagued 2018 made him reinvent himself. Do I trust him? Absolutely not but he was pretty consistently good last year. The entire list is super dicey past a point around there, so draft who you like. At past 50 I think it is mostly preference. Always has been that way.

christianglawe
6 years ago

Civale’s HR/FB rate is certainly going to regress, but Steamer has him at 1.65 HR/9 for 2020? Curious how they arrived at that…

carterMember since 2020
6 years ago

I like Montas too, but it sure seems to me like this entire career it has always been one thing, or another. Yes, he was fine coming off of steroids. But, what if he had been roiding his entire career? Usually the residual effects of steroids last for quite a while after, but not *years*.

RonnieDobbs
6 years ago
Reply to  carter

He always threw really hard, so I don’t think that is as much of a concern.

MRDXolMember since 2021
6 years ago

cease’s early game issues are command/control. he seems to find it more as the game goes along, so if he makes it out of the first few innings he’s looking great. if he finds that more consistently, more like he did his last ~6 starts (out of 14), he’s gonna be scary, between his big fastball, bigger curve, at least average slider, and usable change.

RonnieDobbs
6 years ago
Reply to  MRDXol

Equally likely SSS noise. Everyone is good on their best days.

DaiginjoMember since 2025
6 years ago

Another reason not to quit Musgrove: If you think of the “Money Pitch” cutoffs as guidelines, and not a hard-and-fast rule, then he basically had three in 2019 (slider, changeup, and curveball). So he could be in line for a really tasty 2020 … or he could be one of those guys that just underperforms his peripherals forever.

RonnieDobbs
6 years ago

Nobody can blame you for being high on anyone called shark.

The thing to worry about with Cease is the command. That can really prevent him from doing everything non-ratio related. Young dude, throws real hard, questionable command – those guys get hurt or just implode often. Granted, they are exciting gambles and isn’t that what everyone likes to take.

I am not buying Fried. 1.33 WHIP is not good and that is just all there is to it for me. Giving up hits is really bad and a lot of players struggle with it. He is a back end guy at best in my book. I think there is nothing but downside drafting him that high.

You seem to be putting a lot of stock in the third time through the order. There are a lot of legitimate reasons that should be taken with a grain of salt.. or maybe a whole lot of salt. Its a flawed metric at best as it isn’t a full trip through the order and you get pulled after bad things happen – it also coincides with fatigue but people mistake it for something pitch mix related, which I am highly skeptical of.

In any case, I appreciate addressing your list. Not that you owe it to anyone but it is a useful exercise. The best rankers generally engage in this type of activity and consider feedback – good work.

Travis LMember since 2016
6 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

My first thought: a 1.33 WHIP includes a BABIP about 20 points higher than projected for 2020. (He’s still projected high BABIP guy — .317) To my surprise, he’s actually projected for a 1.29 WHIP next year — seems high — but for a guy with a 2.4:1 GB/FB ratio, given the GB BABIP leaguewide, it makes sense.

Still, he throws strikes, limits walks, keeps the ball on the ground, and looks to have an average/above average K rate, supported by a strong SwStr rate.

You are correct that the WHIP isn’t stellar, but I think he’s as homerball resistant as a SP can be. That raises his floor, as he’s unlikely to give up an absurd number of homers.

SaltyMember since 2017
6 years ago

I think Musgrove is going to be my “year-too-early” guy and I’ll try to buy him back to avoid missing out. Ketel Marte thinks it’s a good idea.