How Much Better Can Scherzer Get in the NL?
A future ace is often tough to identify. Sometimes it’s a #1 overall pick who makes his MLB debut a year after being drafted and turns in his first gem of a season in year three like David Price. But it is often a more circuitous route that maybe only involved a hint of potential ace-dom at the beginning, as with Max Scherzer.
The 11th overall pick from 2006 blitzed his way through the minors and debuted in 2008 with time split in between the rotation and bullpen. Most saw him eventually landing in the bullpen, but as a high impact closer-type. He ranked in the 2008 top 100 lists for Baseball America (#66) and Baseball Prospectus (#90), but he wasn’t even the top prospect on his team. That distinction belonged to Jarrod Parker.
Scherzer hasn’t seen the bullpen since that 2008 season – save a couple of postseason appearances, including an amazing one for the Tigers in 2013 – and has evolved from a promising, but flawed mid-rotation arm to dominant frontline stud. Now, armed with the contract to back his ace status, Scherzer moves from one loaded pitching staff to another, but this time he will be the focal point. Many believe the move back to the National League will increase his value substantially, but how much can he improve upon his last seasons: one a Cy Young effort and the other a near-match when you look at his FIP and component numbers?
The obvious gain that many are looking for is in strikeouts, as a result of Scherzer now facing the pitcher probably somewhere in between one and two times per game. Only two pitchers had 30+ games of two or more plate appearances and only Madison Bumgarner had 20 games of three or more plate appearances, so the people saying “he’s going to face a pitcher three times a game” are wrong. It will happen sometimes, but he’s not logging 96 plate appearances (32 x 3) against pitchers. Aaron Harang led the league with 74 PA against pitchers last year with the top 90 percent of starters getting 60 PA against their counterparts.
Additionally, I’ve seen or heard the notion that he will add 30-40 strikeouts to his total thanks to facing pitchers. That isn’t very likely, either. In most years just a handful of pitchers will post a 50+ percent strikeout rate against opposing pitchers, though nobody achieved the feat in 2014 (Tom Koehler, 49.1%). Koehler’s teammate, Nathan Eovaldi, led the league with 32 pitcher strikeouts last season. In fact, 32 is usually the league-high in a given season:
| Year | Pitcher | Count |
| 2009 | W.Rodriguez/J.Vazquez | 31 |
| 2010 | J.Sanchez/C.Richard | 32 |
| 2011 | Brett Myers | 32 |
| 2012 | Gio Gonzalez | 41 |
| 2013 | Cole Hamels | 32 |
| 2014 | Tom Koehler | 32 |
Even if he reaches the heights of new teammate, Gio Gonzalez, he isn’t adding 41 strikeouts to his total. Scherzer still faces #9 hitters in the American League and while they aren’t as bad as pitchers, they aren’t exactly good. The league leader has averaged about 40 strikeouts of the #9 hitter over the last five years, which would net Scherzer +10 on his 2014 total… if he comes in and leads the league:
| Year | Pitcher | 9th Ks | Scherzer |
| 2009 | Javier Vazquez | 41 | 25 |
| 2010 | J.Sanchez/B.Myers | 35 | 13 |
| 2011 | Z.Greinke/W.Rodriguez | 36 | 21 |
| 2012 | Gio Gonzalez | 48 | 33 |
| 2013 | Clayton Kershaw | 41 | 22 |
| 2014 | Wade Miley | 35 | 30 |
| AVERAGE | 39 | 24 | |
On average, National League starters get 16 strikeouts of pitchers over the last three seasons (the period during which strikeouts have taken a significant jump). I think we can safely project Scherzer to be above average. The top 75 percent of starters register 28 strikeouts against their counterparts on the mound. It may seem low to only put him in the top 75 percent, but the top 90 percent only jumps to 30, so let’s just call it 29.
Looking at #9 hitters as a whole for NL starters, those figures jump to 17, 30, and 32 for the average, top 75 percent, and top 90 percent. Even putting Scherzer in the top 90 percent adds just two strikeouts to his 2014 total. Meanwhile, the differential in SP strikeout rates between the leagues shrunk to a 10-year low of 0.20 percentage points each of the last two seasons after living around one percentage point for the previous eight seasons.
The strikeout rate has slid in each of the last two seasons since 2012’s peak of 29.4 percent, but if he only stays at last year’s 27.9 percent rate, he is still easily elite. I’m just not seeing where Scherzer gets a substantial strikeout gain with this move to Washington. He might just be better and return to his 2012 level, but there is nothing in his numbers or the AL-to-NL numbers that suggest we should be expecting any substantial bump.
Of course that doesn’t mean he won’t gain any advantage with his move to the NL. The Senior Circuit still holds a 0.22 ERA and 0.02 WHIP advantage for starters over the last decade, and those are up to 0.27 and 0.04 over the last three seasons. Scherzer’s transition into a frontline starter has come over the last three seasons. Even though his 2012 ERA was 3.74, he was still quite ace-like for five of the six months, as he shook off a rough April (7.77 ERA) and rallied for a 3.14 ERA in his final 27 starts.
So looking at his last three seasons as a whole, we see a 3.24 ERA and 1.13 WHIP in 622.3 innings. Applying the NL discounts, he’d move to a 2.97 ERA and 1.09 WHIP, which would’ve slotted him 14th in ERA and tied for seventh in WHIP last season. If you wanted to be more optimistic and say his 2013-14 is now his true talent level and then you apply the NL discounts to that, you’re looking at a 2.75 ERA and 1.03 WHIP (10th and tied for 3rd, respectively). Steamer projects him for 2.91/1.08 with a 0.6 percentage point gain, but in just 192 innings so actually a 19-strikeout drop in raw totals. The ERA and WHIP totals rank second in baseball among qualified (162+ IP) starters, with the strikeout total checking third.
I spent nearly 1000 words realistically setting wet blanketing expectations for Scherzer’s return to the National League, but the funny thing is that I’m not down on him at all. I just wanted to bring down the expectations from some of the stratospheric levels I’d seen in articles, heard on podcasts, and read on Twitter (your source for the most sound reactions to… anything).
The improvements in ERA, WHIP, and strikeout rate by shifting from the AL to NL aren’t nearly as high as many seem to think, but an elite-level pitcher getting any sort of uptick can result in a special season. There is a real case for Scherzer to be the second starter off the board behind Kershaw. Considering that I have Strasburg ahead of him on his own team, I wouldn’t do it, but the difference between a Felix Hernandez at two and Scherzer at, say, five or six (I haven’t settled on his spot just yet) is minimal.
Max, right? Max Scherzer?
Forgot to reference him by his full name in the first graph. Fixed.
A few years ago I thought reading your SP Guide gave me an advantage in picking up low priced up and coming pitchers,(Doug Fister $2 with the M’s), over my roto peers. Now my value added source is completely arb’d out. Welcome to Fangraphs Paul.
I promise the SPG will still have info to get an edge!
I ended up keeping Scherzer and the move was the deciding factor. Going to the NL is one thing, but going to the NL East is another. Over the past five years, the Marlins and Braves are in the bottom five for K%. Yeah, I like Scherzer facing those batters.
I almost dove into all of that, but it would’ve been a 3000-word piece. The lineups he gets in ATL, MIA, and PHI makes a case for him to get back to his 2012 or 2013 rate.
Makes sense to me, Paul. (Though, much like you, I’d ultimately rather still have him in Detroit.)
But Nats Park kills homers! But also playing against the Braves, Marlins, and Mets more often is like moving to Strikeout City, USA! It’s not just the NL, it’s the NL East, a.k.a. Whiff Capital of the Baseball Universe. Right? That’s a good tweet. I should go tweet that.
Great article. Love to see more like this! Welcome to FG. So…is your conclusion that Steamer’s current projections are a pretty good representation of what he will do even in the NL?
Yes, that is a fair takeaway for sure!
Paul, shouldn’t you be comparing strikeouts of DHs to pitchers, not #9 hitters? That is the true apples to apples comparison. Also, there is likely going to be an adjustment period where NL hitters who are unfamiliar with him need to adjust, though this may only last a few months and is tough to measure.
You may well be right re: DHs. I got so nine-hitter focused that I lost sight of the DH v. P comparison. In Scherzer’s case specifically, he has fanned DHs at a 39% clip the last two years.
See the comment down a little bit for a further look at this DH v. P issue. I’m glad y’all raised it, though I think we’re good on the original analysis in that it’s unlikely to spike his NL numbers.
Your other thing re: newness might help him a bit, but tough to quantify as you suggest. Plus with video and interleague, it’s probably a lesser effect than ever before.
Maybe what should be analyzed re: mypoit on change in leagues: ho sees more of an uptick in results, command/ontrol gus, or “stuff” guys? Scherzer is more of the latter. So was Gio when he ent to the Nats, and from the above data he sure saw a bmp in K’s.
Yes, that’s what he should be comparing.
Some great information provided in this article. Thanks.
Great indepth analysis Paul. Is there any chance he turns into Justin Verlander in a couple of years? His fastball speed has dropped almost 1.5 mph over the last couple of seasons.
What about changing ballparks? According to the ESPN ballpark stats, in 2014 Nationals Park gave up more runs per game, which could negatively affect Scherzer, yet gave up much fewer home runs, which could help the fly-ball pitcher Max is. The change in defenses seems to be minimal: ESPN’s rankings of 2014 team defense had the Nationals at 14th and Tigers at 16th (with the Giants in between).
I also forgot to mention the division change: pitching against (arguably) one of the weakest divisions in baseball (braves, mets, phillies, marlins) in many pitcher-friendly parks.
I was really focused on Ks. The shift from AL to NL definitely helps the ratios, or at least it should from everything we already know.
I doubt think comparing NL’s pitchers to AL’s #9 hitters is accurate.
He’s going from DH’s to pitchers.
Yes, you’re not the first to mention as much. I don’t have a good way of isolating his work v. DHs, unfortunately. BRef splits have by batting order position.
That said, I don’t think it changes thing much in that there is unlikely to be a HUGE spike in his Ks because of this. I did tally his Ks v. DHs over the last two years (40 and 33). At best he is looking 40 pitcher Ks (barring something historical) so a difference of 4 Ks over what he’s done v. DHs over the last two seasons.
You’re looking at 90ish PA v. DHs (depending how many starts he’d get in an NL park w/an AL team) compared to 60 v. Ps in the NL. The higher K% v. Ps is offset by the lowered volume and my original premise was that he’s unlikely to have a significant jump in Ks simply because he’s in the NL. I stand by that.
But yes, it would’ve been cool to have a DH v. P analysis in there somewhere.
This is obviously not current (2008).
http://www.hardballtimes.com/the-statistical-impact-of-switching-leagues-for-pitchers/
“In moving to the NL, a pitcher’s strikeout rate (K/9) would be expected to rise more than a half-point.”
But we do have a recent example in ervin santana, who went from just under 7 k/9 to a bit over 8 k/9.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/can-ervin-santana-do-better-this-time-around/
This shows Santana keeping roughly the same k% vs non-pitchers as he did in the AL (12.7%), but 38% against pitchers.
The conclusion is that the competition in the NL accounted for the difference in his strikeouts.
Of course, the difference between scherzer vs non-pitchers and scherzer vs pitchers may not be as much as it was for Santana, being that scherzer strikes out more batters.
What about facing some pretty bad offenses (Atl, Phi, and NYM alot)and having a better defense behind him?
I wish we had more cases to look at, i know kevin brown and randy johnson took it to the next level in the nl, although pedro was able to reach elite levels in both leagues