Handling Long-Term Injuries in ottoneu
If it feels like you have spent every moment of Spring Training 2014 hoping that the next article you read is not about a pitcher you own (or one who plays for your favorite MLB team), you are not alone. The Braves have been hard hit, but they are not the only ones, and the latest pitcher to go down hit close to home for me.
Patrick Corbin has been a personal favorite for about a year now. It was just over two months ago that I implored you all to buy on Corbin and since I only give advice that I intend to take myself, the Diamondback hurler has found his way onto the majority of my teams. This seemed like a great thing until the last 24 hours or so, and suddenly I am left trying to figure out what to do with him.
Before we get too far ahead of ourselves, I know that Corbin has not been ruled out. I also know that I cannot think of a time a pitcher heard a recommendation for Tommy John surgery, went for a second opinion, and the second opinion was, “yeah, you are totally fine, go throw 200+ IP, no problem!” But that isn’t the point.
What I want to do is look at, in general, what you should do when a player you own in an ottoneu league gets ruled out for the whole season.
My advice is to think of this player as if they were a prospect. Just like a prospect, this player has a range of possible outcomes, but with the added benefit of knowing their MLB history to date.
Using Corbin as an example, we all know what he did last year. And based on what I wrote in January, you know that I see potential for him to be even better in the future. So, for me, I see little difference between him and a AAA prospect who I think a) will spend the full year in the minors, b) has top-20 SP upside, c) has a floor that is still useful, and d) is most likely to end up somewhere around Corbin’s 2013 performance.
If you are going into an auction and a pitcher like this is unowned, you should think of them and value them the same way you would a prospect, but this line of thought goes beyond just how you pay for the player. When you are looking to make in-season trades, you can use an injured player in much the same way you would use a top prospect to acquire talent. You can also acquire an injured player much the same way you would a prospect. In some ways, they are even more valuable.
Let’s say Corbin goes down for the season, with every expectation that he’ll be back on the bump for Opening Day 2015. You are selling in July and have a choice to acquire him at $5 or a pitching prospect for the same $5. The first consideration is obviously the potential and likely outcomes for the prospect compared to Corbin, but also keep in mind that Corbin, if he is on the 60-day DL, doesn’t take up a roster spot. Remember that prospects bust at a very high rate and that Corbin has already proven himself as a viable MLB SP. Those things both have very real value.
If you already own a player who finds himself out for the year, you have other considerations to think about. One is whether or not they will actually be placed on the 60-day DL (teams are often not as quick to make this move as those of us playing fantasy would like). If you need a roster spot, that transaction is a big one for you.
The other is salary and this is a double-edged sword. If you own the player for a high-price – let’s say $25, you can cut them and open up $12 in cap space; but that $25 player can now be auctioned by your opposition starting at $13, and if they act fast, you will be barred from bidding. If the player is cheap (like a $5 Corbin I have in one league), you almost have to keep them – you’d be giving them away for $3 or maybe a bit more if you let them go, and the only benefit is a $5 ($2 when you cut him, the other $3 when another team buys him up).
The hardest case, of course, is what you do if your auction is this week and we don’t get more definitive news on Corbin. How do you evaluate a player who may be lost for the season? Let’s say you think a pitcher is a $15 pitcher right now, and would bid as such at auction. Let’s say that if the same pitcher were out until 2015, you’d bid no more than $8, figuring that $10 this year plus $9 next year is about a fair price to pay for one season considering the discount you get in 2016 and beyond. What do you bid if you don’t know?
The best answer is probably that you should take a weighted average of those prices – if you think it’s a 60-40 shot that he pitches this year, you pay about $12, reflecting that split. But it is a risky play. My advice, particularly for pitchers, is that you only pay the discounted price. Even if an injury doesn’t require surgery immediately, the chances are that arm won’t be as healthy as you would like.
A long-time fantasy baseball veteran and one of the creators of ottoneu, Chad Young's is the Managing Editor for RotoGraphs, and can be heard on the Keep or Kut Podcast. You can follow him on Bluesky @chadyoung.bsky.social.
I was super excited for my young rotation in my points league that was headlined by Kershaw and included Corbin and Niese. Now I’ve lost 1/3rd of my active rotation with Niese and Corbin down with elbow injuries and Corbin possibly needing TJ surgery.
Who would you recommend as replacements out of Chatwood, Maholm, Detwiler, Taylor Jordan, or James McDonald?
I’d explore the trade market. none of those guys inspire much confidence.
He hasn’t even had the surgery yet, so assuming he has it in April, we won’t be back till mid-season 2015, assuming no complications. Then hell be on an innings limits next year and then finally, after getting nothing for 5$,and 7$ you have a chance to get 2nd starter stats for 9$ in 2016? Not worth it for me.
Mid-season 2015 is a pretty late projection for a return. I’d expect a return earlier, but not a return to form until around then or 2016, so I’d generally agree that it’s not worth it.
I have him, though, and I’m torn between whether use my 60 day DL spot to stash him and use try to use him as a trade throw in or cut him at the end of the season or to cut him now. If I cut him now, my competitors can pick him up at half price, but it would also clear the salary cap penalty if they did so I would save his full salary.
I think Mid-2015 is a bit later than I would expect, but even so – you would still get a #3 or so for most of next year and a #2 after that. Is that really all that different from a AA pitching prospect? Not saying it is a no-brainer, but it isn’t a bad call either.
I bought Medlen for $18 (which I thought was a good deal) way before he got injured. If he has another Tommy John surgery, does this put him out a couple years (at least til late 2015)?
Should he be cut? I doubt anyone picks him up for $10, but you never know I suppose.
By the way, good article. You guys have been putting out some premium content the last few weeks.
It is a reasonable probability that Medlen doesn’t start again. Personally, I think that players/fantasy/MLB has become too blase about TJ surgery. And a second one? Maybe I’ve just been unlucky in the last couple years by Beachy/Luebke/Dan Hudson/Soria/Feliz/Baker/etc – but I’m definitely rethinking my long-time strategy of picking up ‘cheap’/’forgotten’ post-TJ P’s. If someone picks Medlen up at $10, let them waste their slot/money.
Thanks, Clayton. As for Medlen, I am with jfree – I actually think $18 may have been too much for Medlen now, and I am not using that cap space all year on him, if he has the surgery.
A few thoughts in response to this
1- the value of a roster spot in and of itself is pretty low in ottoneu. Benches are deep. Holding a guy with the expectation he will either a) end up on the 60 day dl, returning the roster spot to you or b) be able to play and provide value in the future is only a problem if you have to choose someone to cut in order to fill a hole elsewhere. The odds that the roster spot kept is needed for someone else are slim in the first place, and it’s likely that even if you need the slot there are players who could be cut with minimum impact. I cut a $3 jeff locke to make room for a trade I accepted while I wait for Matt Harvey to go on the DL. It was not a hard choice to make and I didn’t consider it when determining what to spend on Harvey
2- i agree with the general idea about how to discount a player who’s immediate future is uncertain, but I think it underplays the long term investment. With corbin there are 2 best case scenarios: first, he’s healthy and productive enough to return value or profit in 2014, second, his outcome is known before you auction and he is placed on the 60 day dl. In the second scenario, this is best case because you can bid on based on what you’d want to pay in 2015. I did this with Harvey– I took him at $23 because I knew he’d sit on the DL all year, freeing up that $23 early in the season, and I was confident he’d go for more than $27 next year.
With a player whose outcome is uncertain, hedging the bet in auction is smart if the cost goes above a certain threshold.
But if you own the player now, cutting before the outcome is certain is not worth it. Don’t cut Corbin until you know where he’ll fall.
I think that is an overpay on Harvey for now. Two issues – first, you are using $23 of cap space all year on him. Yes, you get the roster spot back, but the cap dollars are gone. So you are playing with ~92% of the budget your competition has to work with.
Second, I wouldn’t be surprised if you get hit with arbitration dollars against him. So you are paying $23 for him all year to likely get little or no discount next year? And taking on the risk that the injury lingers and he doesn’t come back to form (or takes longer than expect to get his form back)? Harvey went for $13 in the FanGraphs Experts League, and that seems closer to the right price to pay.
I have Corbin, too, in a keeper points league. Points are similar, but not identical to ottoneu. You would still look for the same players.
I’m hoping to stash Corbin on the DL ASAP, but I’d appreciate some advice/imput/wild ass guesses regarding some choices to replace him.
There are some interesting options still available in our league, but they won’t be for much longer. Salary cap isn’t an issue ATM.
We have blind FA auctions with a separate budget, so there’s no guarantee which of the following I would get.
Here’s the list I’ve been looking at in no particular order:
Joe Kelly, James Paxton, Scott Baker, Taijuan Walker, Wily Peralta, Martin Perez, Scott Kazmir, Zack Wheeler, Corey Kluber, Michael Pineda, Yovani Gallardo.
Are you willing to rank (some are probably interchangeable) or at least eliminate some of these guys?
This will also be useful if someone else blows his arm out this week.
Thanks for your help!
i like a number of those guys. I’d be going after Walker first and foremost, then Wheeler, Pineda, Kluber, Paxton, Perez, in roughly that order. I’d avoid Kazmir – triceps tightness this morning is a bad sign.
Thanks for the confirmation, Chad!
It’s helpful to know that I’m on the right track and eliminated the same guys.
I ranked them Walker, Wheeler, and then Kluber and Perez ahead of Pineda and Paxton…and your order looks better.