Three Deals and a (Very Expensive) Keeper
The ottoneu trade deadline has come and gone, and Friday was a busy deadline day for the original ottoneu league. While there had been a number of deals weeks or even months before the deadline, two big stars with rather large contracts remained on non-contenders, and a number of other teams were still trying to get over the top.
Between 8:00 p.m. ET and 10:45 p.m. ET, we had three deals go down and had another owner make the call to hold onto a rather expensive star.
We’ll start with the deals that did happen, and leave you to guess who the identity of the $60 who did not get moved.
8:03 p.m. ET – Freeport Pretzels (also known as my team) gives up: Yadier Molina ($3) and Felipe Paulino ($5)
Tiger Striped Dick (TSD) gives up: Prince Fielder ($63) and $55 in loans
I had been pushing for Prince for months, particularly since OBP is the category I have the most opportunity to gain on offense. With Justin Morneau manning my Util slot, I was getting rather solid production, but not what I could be getting, and certainly not the on-base skills provided by Fielder. Now I have Fielder at first with a Paul Konerko/Justin Morneau platoon at Util. The big chip moving the other way was Molina, and I will definitely miss Yadi, but this was a perfect example of trading from depth. I was platooning Molina with Miguel Montero, as is, and slotting Yasmani Grandal in as my new backup is nothing to sneeze at. Of course the other owner walks away with a stud catcher and a bit of a flyer of a SP. And he was not done dealing.
9:42 p.m. ET – Overpaid Scrubs gives up: Jarred Cosart ($3), Daniel Strailly ($1), and Brandon Belt ($6)
West Coast Wellness gives up: Craig Stammen ($2) and Carlos Beltran ($10)
In the deal sandwiched by the TSD trades, the current first place team tried to bolster his roster by adding Beltran…only to have Beltran find himself out of the lineup for a couple days. Beltran is unlikely to miss too much more time, but the bigger question here is did the Scrubs need to make this move at all?
As of today, this team is in first place with 85 points – the two teams tied for second (who also made deals at the deadline) are at 74.5 points. The Scrubs have been getting progressively more expensive all year, aggressively targeting acquisitions and making their moves. You could argue that this deal isn’t just about this year, but while Beltran may be keepable at $12 in 2013, he is unlikely to provide much surplus value at that price. In the meantime, the current 5th place team added much needed innings and had the OF depth to give up Beltran at little cost. I think it will be hard to find fault with this deal this year, but the 2013 and 2014 Scrubs may look back on this with some regret.
10:45 p.m. ET – Dave Stewart’s Balls (DSB) gives up: Michael Wacha ($3), Yasiel Puig ($4), and Dan Vogelbach ($3)
TSD gives up: Josh Johnson ($30), Chris Perez ($6), Alex Gordon ($31), Hanley Ramirez ($50), and $107 in loan
TSD again made a move for the future, bringing back a pile of prospects for an even larger pile of likely unkeepable players. DSB is the team tied with me for second place, and this haul has been hard for me to judge. On the one hand, those are some big names and solid talents. On the other, which of those four players is the one you really want to count on carrying your team down the stretch? None is having a great year, though Alex Gordon has been quite good and Perez has been fine outside of his 3.59 ERA.
And, to some extent, this deal was just about DSB getting back to full strength. Hanley replaces the long-injured Troy Tulowitzki; Gordon is on the bench today, sitting behind the newly returned Curtis Granderson; and Perez is the stop-gap 6th reliever now that Kenley Jansen has left the DSB lineup. This move was more necessity than luxury, and if DSB can hold me off for 2nd place, he’ll likely have this trade to thank.
Interestingly, the day before the deadline, the deal I had one the table for Prince included Josh Johnson and would have also cost me Matt Garza. I offered up the deal without the pitchers when the other owner was slow to respond, hoping to spur something to happen. Had I not offered up the deal without Johnson, it may have side-tracked this deal…or could have side-tracked my deal. In either case, the impact on the race would have been huge.
Finally…the $60 player being held by a non-contender? ottoneu founder Niv Shah decided to keep Ryan Braun on his roster for next year, with a 2013 price tag of $62. Shah had offers on the table (I offered Molina, Garza, and a $5 Matt Joyce for Braun and a $21 Brandon Phillips), but decided that Braun – the third highest paid player in our game – was a better value than that package (or any other he could have gotten).
His argument is primarily that stars make a team, and that it is REALLY hard to get stars. Considering the year-to-year inflation we have seen in our league, Braun’s price tag next year likely climbs to $65-$67 if he ends up back in the auction pot. Instead, Shah’s Negative EV gets a bit of surplus value and a guaranteed star OF to lead the offense.
My opinion is that the option to spend even $70 on Braun next year plus the group of Garza, Molina, and Joyce for $30 provides more value than Braun at $62 (basically, I am arguing that $38 isn’t enough to buy the production of Garza, Molina and Joyce from the free agent class).
I kept you guessing who the non-traded star was until the end of the article – determining if that was the right move will keep us guessing much longer.
A long-time fantasy baseball veteran and one of the creators of ottoneu, Chad Young's is the Managing Editor for RotoGraphs, and can be heard on the Keep or Kut Podcast. You can follow him on Bluesky @chadyoung.bsky.social.
The real question for me is whether or not he kept current Ryan Braun, or kept and next year will be getting shrunken-head-no-more-juice Braun. That’s a potentially huge swing, and if Braun’s not the same, he might as well have blown half his budget on a plaster bust of Troy Tulowitzki’s torn hamstrings.
I agree…I wouldn’t want to hold on to Braun for that much. Even if I couldn’t deal him, I’d cut him and hope that I get him back for even slightly cheaper through auction. Even if his price increases 2-5 bucks like you say, I’d think that’s a risk worth taking.
In the first year of my ottoneu league, I’ve found myself out of contention. So my general strategy has been that I don’t want to keep hardly anyone for over $30, and no one for over $40. I’d rather pay a lot for someone at auction who I think is going to have a great year and then throw them back/deal if out of contention again. That’s kind of what guides my opinion on that Braun scenario. Do you think that’s a viable strategy/have you seen it at work before?
3-5 bucks*
There are two parts to that strategy, so far as I can tell (and maybe I am misunderstanding).
Part I: Drop a pricey guy you think you can get back for less. I used to think this was a good idea, but I actually haven’t often seen it work well. A few years back I tried this with Pujols and ended up paying an extra $10 or something. There tends to be year-to-year inflation, so a guy who goes for $X this year, basically lives up to expectations, and ends up back in the auction pool next year will likely go for somewhere between $X+2 and $X+5, or more. Braun, for me, is in this camp. His average price next year will be higher than it was this year, I think.
Part II: Overpay for guys you need and if it doesn’t work, spin them off in trades. This definitely works. I paid way too much for Kershaw…but I needed an ace and I got one. Another owner in our league overpaid for Jason Heyward (at least by pre-season standards) but when Heyward started hitting and his team fell out of contention, he was able to trade Heyward (with a similarly potentially overpaid Jay Bruce) to me for an injured but very keepable Jose Bautista. This happens a lot. The hard thing is, you can’t really overpay for more than 1-2 guys, so if you have more holes than that, you are basically acknowledging early that you will be trading those guys.
How can there be such a discrepancy in player values from league to league? In our points league I don’t think there is a single player above $48 or so. We do seem to spend more on prospects but this can’t account for all of it. Is there really a justification for a star being more than $50 or $60?
I think there are two reasons – first, there is a lot of salary inflation year-to-year. In year one, you start with everyone having $400 and 40 spots and trying to maximize value. By year two, anyone being kept is underpaid (or at least should be) which means you have everyone with $100-$200 to spend, but only needing a few pieces. So while Ryan Braun may only provide $50 of value, a team that really needs him will pay $55 or $60. And each year each team adds a couple of cheap guys – prospects who make good, injured players returning to form, etc. – and so their extra spending money increases. In year one of our league, I think Pujols went for $50. Now he is $68. That’s inflation.
Second, there are just basic league-to-league market differences. If one or two guys think stars are worth $60, they will pay that and if you want to get those stars, you have to pay it, too. If, instead, top prospects are going for $20, star players have to be a bit less than they otherwise would. My expectation is that overtime the leagues will reach more of an equilibrium with each other, but part of the beauty of ottoneu is that the market is league specific. Prince was worth way more to the Tigers than he was to the market and if an alternate league existed, no team may have been willing to pay that price. Same thing happens in ottoneu. I needed pitching, I paid $118 for Kershaw and Lincecum combined. Their actual value wasn’t the issue for me…I had the money, I needed the arms, and price was not an issue. In your league next year, maybe someone is desperate for MI help and Cano goes for $65….who knows?
Can I petition for an Ottoneu-only post at season’s end where those in Otto leagues can discuss potential changes/wish list items for 2013? Just for example, the “keeper” deadline should be pushed back to March 1st instead of February 1st.
We’re in season two of our Ottoneu league and we’ve seen inflation rates rise already from season to season. Pujols was snagged at auction for $51 this year and at the time everyone thought that was decent value. However, with his rather sub-standard year his value has dropped, but he was traded a few weeks before the deadline because a savvy owner realized that even with lower production he’d likely go for $55+ in next year’s draft to those teams a Pujols away from contention. The off season brings a lot of optimism for almost all teams, so if you evaluate properly and think you’re just a superstar or two away from serious contention in 2013, a $60+ Pujols can make a lot of sense. Inflation seems to escalate even more for ace SP’s, so I expect that trend to continue in 2013 within our league too…