Poll: Do You Play in an OBP League?
For the first time this year, I am participating in a league that counts on base percentage instead of batting average. And it’s a big league — Tout Wars. Eno and I are both competing, so we will have first hand knowledge/experience with this format and how hitter values change. As a result, we will be able to include OBP analysis in our articles if enough of you readers play in such leagues.
So, please tell us whether you play in a league that includes OBP as a category instead of AVG.
Mike Podhorzer is the founder of ProjectingX IQ, an advanced fantasy baseball analytics platform that transforms projection data and in-season performance signals into actionable intelligence. He is the 2015 Fantasy Sports Writers Association Baseball Writer of the Year and three-time Tout Wars champion. He is the author of the eBook Projecting X 2.0: How to Forecast Baseball Player Performance, which teaches you how to project players yourself. Follow Mike on X@MikePodhorzer and contact him via email.
My roto league uses both.
yeah, i have a league with both, and a league that does avg/ops, but no league where obp replaces avg
Leagues with both (or AVG/OPS) are incredibly dumb and should be banned from the face of the earth.
we were gonna invite you to join next year, but i guess i’ll take that as a no
My league uses OBP and (H+BB+HBP)/(AB+BB+HBP+SF)
Mine too
my league is 10×10 – with h,r,hr,rbi,bb,so,sb,avg,ops, and tb. – lest any of you thought my “no” was for a simple avg+4 league
what does this 10×10 league use for pitching? Thanks.
I am in a league that uses OPS, so my answer is kinda.
Me too.
this
Same here.
ditto
My league has AVG, OBP, and SLG.
Got a league that uses avg, obp and slg also
I am in this league.
Does Ottoneu (points) count? Either way, all of my leagues other than that one use average, not OBP.
OBP and TB
Oops, not meant as a reply to this comment in particular
Are you in my league? That’s what we use.
I’ve only played in one league ever, but I insisted on AVG -> OBP, HR -> TB, and SB -> NSB. The existing players actually liked the change and kept using these stats even after I left at the end of the year.
The two reasons I don’t do fantasy are 1) it takes too much time to constantly manage a roster and 2) I don’t think the categories very effectively reflect player value. My preference would be for something like a WAR league that included defense as well. I guess discounting fielding completely feels like it’s too far from actual baseball to maintain my interest. I would never play in an AVG/HR league. Walks and doubles must count.
@cass: play scoresheet
@Cass some friends and I play a league like that. scoring is entirely based on WAR, with 25 man rosters (bench WAR is worth 1/2). keeper league, with rosters that stay mostly the same from year-to-year. it’s pretty fun.
OBP/SLG instead of AVG/HR is just so clearly superior. Not only do they better capture the full spectrum of batting outcomes and their relative values, they also mirror the two pitching rates (ERA/WHIP), such that the tradeoff between accumulation and quality is similar for both pitchers and hitters.
Used OBP exclusively for a few years, but this year we switched over to OPS. Well it includes OBP so I voted yes.
Honestly I’d be okay if I never saw another reference of batting average ever again.
Good luck in Tout Wars, that’s a heck of a trophy to bring home!
My league for the last 3 years has replaced AVG & HR for OBP & SLG. We also use QS and NSB. We actually got rid of NSV after some complaints, so I’m surprised NSB stuck, but a big fan of QS over W.
Agreed on quality starts. I can’t play in leagues that don’t use QS.
My league uses AVG and walks FWIW. I clicked YES
Ours is a little different (OBP,HR,SB,RBI,R,SLG) but I think strikes a good balance between good old 5×5 and something like linear weights
ben, if you don’t mind, what at the pitching categories in this league? Thanks.
yes but it’s 8X6 (ave, OBP, RC, slug, RBI, HR, net steals, R x 2w-L, 2*saves+holds-BS, Ks, ERA, WHIP, QS). Love it. Obviously skewed towards hitting and obp/slug is basically double counted with RC.
OBP instead of AVG
One of each-regular 5×5, and then a 6×6 that adds OBP and Holds.
Wow, good thing I asked this question. I had no idea you guys played in leagues with such non-standard categories! It’s clear that we should start publishing articles that focus on, or at least mention, value as it relates to OBP.
If I had to guess, I would say at least 50% of roto graphs readers play in a league that uses something other than standard 5×5 roto.
We use AVG, OBP and TB, I said yes, but really, we’re just
As an aside, I think an article, or some crowd-sourcing, on some of the various category and league formats, might be interesting. I’m proud of what my league put together and has used the past 7 or 8 years, and would be interested to see what all else is out there. We are 8 X 8: R, RBI, TB, HR, SB-CS, AVG, OBP, OPS; W, QS, K, S, Hold, ERA, WHIP, OPSA. Turns out to be a very good blend for assigning value to MLB players similar to their real life value (other than defensive chops of course).
we use avg/obp/ops
I’m in a 5×5 that uses OPS instead of AVG and a points league where BB and 1B are equivalent (1 point each).
I prefer OBP over AVG any day. Walks should not go unrewarded!
No. Old School
OBP over AVG in Rotoguru league (AAA)
What about leagues with OPS as a category?
Not the same since player values will once again change. Every new or switched category is going to change values, so I was just referring specifically to OBP instead of AVG.
Just looked at the above comments. A lot of OPS leagues out there. My league still uses batting average along with OPS. I think strikeouts might be a decent category for hitting, but in certain leagues, it is dangerous to use too many total type categories for those who stop paying attention.
I feel like batting average kinda helps hitters who don’t strike out a lot and aren’t necessarily power hitters…such as an ichiro.
As many have already said… I play in a league with offensive categories AVG & OPS (+ R, RBI, HR, SB). So OBP is counted, if indirectly.
if you don’t mind, what are the pitching categories? Thanks.
Is anybody in a league that uses wOBA?
ottoneu sabr points is basically wOBA
Wish I did
I think the poll results are going to be skewed in favor of OBP. How many people reading FanGraphs are going to enthusiastically go in and click Batting Average? Basically, I think the OBP crowd will have a higher voter turnout than the standard cats crowd.
I do not have any OBP leagues this year. Old school batting average only. I’d prefer OBP, but I don’t think the majority of my league-mates want to make that change.
This is probably true.
While I’m not in a specifically OBP league, we do count hits and walks, so it gets the major elements of OBP. Enough so that I’d certainly not mind seeing OBP calculations in articles.
OBP instead of AVG here. why are all these leagues double-counting stats? if you want 2 categories, avg and walks. if you want one, obp. don’t double-or-triple-count average.
I agree, but some leagues are harder to change than others. My league uses OPS and Average.
Although I prefer other categories, Batting Average still provides some interesting wrinkles into the league. Players that mainly have high contact/low strikeout rates whom tend to hit for higher average, but average to below average OPS are still useful. At the same time, batting average punishes low contact/high strikeout rate guys such as Adam Dunn (who still happen to do well in OPS – for the most part). Personally, strikeouts (or strikeout percentage) would make more sense as a category. But people in the league want fantasy baseball to still be fun, and therefore, they don’t care for certain changes.
We try to avoid total stats (such as hits, total bases, strikeouts) because every year there is always one or 2 guys (we try to boot whomever does this) that doesn’t max out their games played (basically not being active in the league), which we believe would have a more artificial effect on the standings at the end of the season, rather than ratio stats such as Batting Average.
My league switched from AVG to OBP last year. I finished 2nd overall the year before, dead last in AVG. With OBP I was 2nd in the category and won the league. Just saying.
We use OBP instead of BA
OBP and SLG in a 7×7, no AVG
I’d actually not only prefer this but more ottoneu specific articles.
And Ottoneu articles that at least acknowledge the 4×4 format exists.
Our long-running keeper league just switched from standard 5×5 to a 6×6 format. The new categories this year are R, HR, RBI, SB, OBP, and SLG for hitting and IP, QS, SV, ERA, WHIP, and K/9 for pitching.
The season may have just started, but I couldn’t be happier with the change. Our draft was certainly made more interesting as a result. For years I pushed for removing AVG and W. It took some convincing, but knowing everyone in real life certainly helped.
Neglecting walks feels so horribly outdated, and who really gives a damn about Wins as a category these days?
I run a “GM-league” where you get a fixed payroll and sign player to 1-3 year contracts, with a no-drops policy.
Categories are —
Hitting:
RBI
Runs
OBP%
SLG%
SB minus CS
Pitching:
Quality Starts
Holds+Saves
K minus BB
ERA
SLGA%
With the exception of ERA, we think its a pretty solid value of players.
I’m in one league with OPS instead of average, and another with average, OBP and SLG (which is weird imo but whatever).
OBP and SLG, no AVG
My league uses average and walks (needed an extra category to add pitcher losses to prevent streaming)
My league uses standard 5×5 statistics. Joined it ’cause one of my friends brought it up, heh. Don’t really mind average used in Fantasy, really.
Technically, I don’t play in an OBP league, but I do play in a wOBA based league. Have played in many OBP leagues in the past, however.
From a statistician’s point of view, you really can’t title the link “Do you Play in an OPS League” and expect a fair poll result–mainly because, people who play in OPS leagues are going to be more inclined to click on that link. Imagine if I posted a link titled “Do You Like Sabermetrics” on a random site. Only those people who know what Sabermetrics are will even look at the link.
I’m not concerned with the percentage of votes that registered “Yes”, just the total numbers of yeses. The more yeses, the higher the chances we’ll include some OBP specific content. And since we already have nearly 600 yeses, that means OBP fun here we come!
My league made the switch to OBP instead of AVG last year and it has enhanced the league immensely. It feels so great to see your hitters rewarded for being disciplined at the plate and drawing walks.
My league uses OBP and SLG instead of AVE and RBI. In our 8th year with no complaints.
My league uses the categories of BB and AVG.
OBP & SLG instead of AVG in a 6×6 league.
My league also uses both, and I’m in one league that uses avg, obp and ops.
My home league uses OBP instead of AVG, Mike. We did it a few years back because a) we like to keep the rules simple and things you can root for an understand while they happen and you’re watching them; and b) we felt a “walk” is a positive outcome to a plate appearance and something you should be happy about. Not a non-event.
I’m also in the “kind of” camp. Our league has a mix of traditionalist types and fangraphs reader types, so our mix of categories are a bit odd.
9×9 head-to-head
Hitting:
Runs
RBI
Hr
Net SB
Avg
Walks
Ops
K (neg hitting stat)
Runs created
Pitching:
IP
K
Walks(neg pitching stat)
Wins (did not succeed in changing this to quality starts this year)
Sv
Hold
ERA
WHIP
K/9
Yes – 5×5 using obp and SLG vs avg and HR. two of my 3 leagues use this now
I’m in a league that counts both AVG and OBP. This league also counts Complete Games and Saves as separate categories, and we go 7×7. It sounds ridiculous, and involves some amount of luck, but the parody has been fun. It keeps the league fresh, and this being our 10th season, we have not had a repeat winner of the league. We’ve had these categories for 9 of the 10 years, and we haven’t had many complaints. I’ve brought up switching to QS over Wins in our league meetings, and switching to other offensive categories, but I think we’re locked into our 7 for the long haul.
I’m in a 20 team league that uses OBP. With a league that deep, OBP makes a lot more players useful, which is always a good thing.
I’m in a league that drafted as an OBP league then the manager changed it to OPS after the draft. Not sure if that should count. Luckily, it’s not a league I really care about.
I second the movement for an poll article on common categories. A resulting vertical bar graph would be great with the most common configuration getting the tallest bar. And include pitching of course. Thanks.
OBP and AVG
9×9 ESPN Roto
Hitting
OBP
AVG
R
SLG
SB
HR
XBH
RBI
K
Pitching
IP
W
K/9
WHIP
K
SV
BB
QS
ERA
Sixth year in my league and starting this year we replaced AVG/HR/SB with OBP/SLG/netSB and W/K with QS/Kper9
Indirectly, yes. I play primarily in points leagues. So while “OBP” specifically is not a category, walks count. OBP-centric advice would certainly save me a bit on the amount of extrapolating I am forced to do.
If you are considering some sort of expansion of coverage, how about throwing a bone to us points-leaguers every so often. To quote Dr. Suess, “We are here! We are here! We are here!”
I play in a points league that includes walks and HBP