Picking at the #3 Spot: Down to Turner & Betts
In a few days, the Great Fantasy Baseball Invitational will begin drafting. The invitational is the combination of 13 different 15-team leagues full of the industry’s best and brightest (and Howard Bender). We’ve been given our draft positions and I got the third pick. After Arizona installed the humidor and dinged Goldschmidt’s value, the pick has no easy options. Instead of focusing on the first-round pick, I’m going to dive into my second and third round options to hopefully make a better choice with the first one.
With any draft or auction in which my draft pick is known, I plan my first two to three picks. Beyond that point, the variables increase, plan is out the window, and owners need to target values and needs.
The following procedure outlines my first picks but can be applied to any draft.
Note: After looking over winning teams from industry drafts, one common denominator prevailed, production from their first few picks (thanks Rudy Gamble for first pointing this out). If they miss, the team almost always never wins. I’m not going to gamble on my first picks for upside. I need top dollar production and gamble on upside later.
In this league, I’m picking at #3, #28, and #35. To help find the players likely to available, I created a player availability spreadsheet (instructions and spreadsheet) to determine who might be available at any given pick using current NFBC ADP (average draft position).
Everyone but Mike Trout and Jose Altuve will be in play at the #3 pick. If either one falls to this pick, I’ll gladly draft them. Here are the other players I’d consider with their HR, SB, and AVG Depth Chart projections.
- Chris Sale (I value Sale over the other three to four Tier-1 starters based on being youngest with a healthy past)
- Trea Turner (16/49/.289)
- Paul Goldschmidt (32/17/.288) adjusted to (26/17/.288) for humidor
- Nolan Arenado (40/3/.298)
- Mookie Betts (24/23/.298)
- Charlie Blackmon (27/15/.303)
- Giancarlo Stanton (58/2/.280)
- Bryce Harper (35/10/.298)
The batting averages are close, so I’ll throw them out. After looking over the choices, the hitters range from power only (Staton) to mainly speed (Turner) with different level of balanced production in between. After looking over the options some more, I down to Stanton, Turner, Betts, and Sale. The next step is to see who has a chance of being available at my next two picks. Here are my options.
| Name | Position | Rank | ADP | % Chance: Pick #28 | % Chance: Pick #33 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Joey Votto | 1B | 18 | 18.8 | 21% | 11% |
| Jose Ramirez | 2B/3B | 19 | 19.0 | 8% | 1% |
| Gary Sanchez | C | 20 | 20.1 | 19% | 8% |
| Francisco Lindor | SS | 21 | 20.8 | 8% | 1% |
| Freddie Freeman | 1B | 22 | 21.8 | 29% | 15% |
| Cody Bellinger | 1B/OF | 23 | 24.3 | 32% | 14% |
| J.D. Martinez | OF | 24 | 25.0 | 37% | 19% |
| Anthony Rizzo | 1B | 25 | 25.2 | 32% | 10% |
| Stephen Strasburg | P | 26 | 25.7 | 39% | 18% |
| Madison Bumgarner | P | 27 | 26.0 | 41% | 20% |
| Dee Gordon | 2B | 28 | 28.5 | 52% | 27% |
| Josh Donaldson | 3B | 29 | 29.2 | 53% | 41% |
| George Springer | OF | 30 | 30.7 | 69% | 34% |
| Alex Bregman | 3B | 31 | 32.3 | 64% | 48% |
| Luis Severino | P | 32 | 33.5 | 75% | 52% |
| Noah Syndergaard | P | 33 | 34.2 | 74% | 55% |
| Jacob deGrom | P | 34 | 34.5 | 81% | 58% |
| Carlos Carrasco | P | 35 | 35.8 | 79% | 62% |
| Kenley Jansen | P | 36 | 36.8 | 80% | 64% |
| Brian Dozier | 2B | 37 | 37.6 | 88% | 71% |
| Corey Seager | SS | 38 | 38.7 | 88% | 73% |
| Justin Verlander | P | 39 | 40.8 | 75% | 66% |
| Jose Abreu | 1B | 40 | 41.5 | 82% | 72% |
| Andrew Benintendi | OF | 41 | 41.6 | 90% | 79% |
| Craig Kimbrel | P | 42 | 44.7 | 97% | 90% |
| Zack Greinke | P | 43 | 46.9 | 84% | 77% |
| Robbie Ray | P | 44 | 47.7 | 97% | 92% |
| Marcell Ozuna | OF | 45 | 47.7 | 98% | 93% |
Going just off ADP, I’m slotted in fo Dee Gordon and Noah Syndergaard. After how well Thor threw in his first start, I’d be fine with these picks. But I can hope for more.
I’d love for one of following hitters to fall, especially with some possible Syndergaard helium pushing them down.
- Joey Votto
- Jose Ramirez
- Gary Sanchez
- Francisco Lindor
- Freddie Freeman
- Cody Bellinger
- J.D. Martinez
- Anthony Rizzo
Josh Donaldson would also be in this mix off my valuations. None are speed only plays with most being power only. There’s a 50% chance for Gordon dropping with Bregman and Springer being in-play.
As for pitching, there’s a nice bunch of staff anchors available at the 28th pick. I’m worried the other two teams at the turn will also go starting pitcher eating up the likely depth.
- Stephen Strasburg
- Madison Bumgarner
- Luis Severino
- Noah Syndergaard
- Jacob deGrom
- Carlos Carrasco
- Justin Verlander
My most likely options at the turn are a balanced to power hitter and a Tier #2 starting pitcher.
With these likely later options, I’ll remove Sale and Stanton off my #3 overall pick list as I can find pitching in the next two rounds and possibly not speed to pair with Stanton. I’ll concentrate on either Turner or Betts with that #3 pick.
So, my ranked combinations are (another power-only or balanced option can be substituted for Donaldson and Springer):
- Betts-Springer
- Turner- Springer
- Turner-Donaldson
- Betts-Donaldson
I’d love to end up with the Betts-Springer balanced combo but I am the least fond of the Betts-Donaldson one. My Twitter followers can’t make up their minds either.
If given the option, which hitter pair would you rather have to start off a draft?
— Jeff Zimmerman (@jeffwzimmerman) February 27, 2018
Finally, looking back at the hitters who may fall, most are power only hitters which makes me want to lean Turner. For now, I’m not sure and I have a few more days to decide as the slow draft starts on the March 1st. Until then, I will be mulling over these two choices.
Jeff, one of the authors of the fantasy baseball guide,The Process, writes for RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, Rotowire, Baseball America, and BaseballHQ. He has been nominated for two SABR Analytics Research Award for Contemporary Analysis and won it in 2013 in tandem with Bill Petti. He has won four FSWA Awards including on for his Mining the News series. He's won Tout Wars three times, LABR twice, and got his first NFBC Main Event win in 2021. Follow him on Twitter @jeffwzimmerman.
Maybe it’s because I mostly play in points leagues so the steals are less meaningful, but I just can’t get on board with Turner at 3. The health is a major risk, and he’s slated to bat second in front of Harper rather than leadoff so those steals will go down. Not saying he isn’t an elite player, but he’s got much more downside IMO than he’s given credit for.
Why would he be a major health risk
Why is he a health risk? His DL stint last year was an HBP…hardly indicative of anything to do with Turner’s health.
Yea, he’s like any other gritty speed-first player. i.e. about the same health risk as everyone else. There’s certainly downside with the short track record, but that’s a different beast.
I would have liked to see this reflect all 3 picks and how you would adjust based on the different combos that might unfold. It reads like you probably go with Carrasco or DeGrom (assuming Thor is gone). My concern would be missing out on an elite SS. In my mock experience this year OF is thin, whereas 2B, SS, and 3B are deep, but you also never feel great without a top 5 guy. What do you think about the projection systems expecting Stanton to be so valuable? I have calculated many leagues where he is 2 based on the HR and RBI total. FWIW I think it would be tough to win a deepish league if you draft Gordon and will be avoiding him.
I’m picking 5th in League #7 and I’m way over thinking this…Betts, Harper, Stanton, Nolan, Turner? argh!!!!
These are where the 4 players you named rank according to Statcast’s Barrels/PA with a minimum of 190 batted balls:
Donaldson – 12
Springer – 55
Turner – 163
Betts – 190
I understand that cherry-picking of this sort invariably leads to a not-so-very-nuanced take, but when you run a regression analysis with HR% and Barrels/PA you wind up with a 75% r-square. So, I’m not betting on Betts “re” -discovering some kind of power stroke, and I agree with Moltar about Turner being grossly overpriced at #3. If for some reason Turner’s steals dip down, what else does he have to fall back on? By contrast, who expects Donaldson to not be among the league leaders in homers and RBI? You’re getting one category out of Turner and two out of Donaldson. Also, I don’t understand why being “power only” is bad. Show me a “power only” player that doesn’t also drive in a lot of runs and score a lot of runs in his own right.
I’m generally in the same boat on Turner, but he did show more extra base power in the 2nd half. Looking at his first half, he slugged .422 and owed that meager accomplishment to an absurd series at Coors where he racked up 7 XBHs in 4 games; you pull out that one series (say you benched him since he was ice cold until then) and you got nothing out of Turner in the first half.
If the goal is the safer guy, then it’s Betts.
Can I ask why Arenado was bumped? Seems to me the safest 3rd pick and an Arenado-Springer combo better than Betts-Donaldson
Over the power only guys, I’d take Stanton.
For me the gap between the top 5-6 starting pitchers and the rest of the field seems to increase every year so it’s Sale or Kershaw no doubt at #3 or even #2.
I’d much rather start off my draft with Sale – Bregman than Turner – deGrom
Turner+Donaldson over Betts+Springer, for sure. Going with Turner+Donaldson gives up 13 projected HRs for 29 steals. That’s an incredible deal, and it pays off comfortably even if Turner misses his steals by 10.
Balance in individual players is only valuable insofar as it leads to a balanced roster. Betts you can pair with anybody at 28-33 and stay balanced. Turner you can pair with anybody but Gordon. Not much of a restriction.
Per ZIPS projections Trea Turner is Whit Merrifield +17 stolen bases. “Talent” aside.
Per ZIPS Giancarlo Stanton is +12 HR on the league. Based on your own projections Stanton is +18HR, +18R, and +18RBI on your next closest “power” only option.
I was in the same position (3rd pick) a couple days ago and once Trout/Altuve were gone, I was more than happy to pick Stanton and hope the new park/supporting cast help him meet his floor. Hoping Bryce likes someone running in front of him 60 times this season in his contract year didn’t push the needle.
Stanton… probably the first hitter ever where the Depth Chart HR projection exceeds the fan projection by 10 or more.
Lumping Stanton’s batting average in with the rest of those guys is a leap. He’s just as likely to hit in the .270s, and many of the others have a reasonable shot at .305 or so.
Also, I’m not sure what happened to Arenado. He’s widely accepted as a legitimate #3 option but he seems to have been dismissed without a supported argument. Did I miss something or is that baked into the “you can get power later” reasoning?
Reason I’m asking…I’m stuck with #3 in my home league and was leaning towards Arenado before your article. Now I’m thinking Betts, which is fine because I also think last year may be closer to his floor, especially with JDM in town now.
Thanks – great article.
I also picked third. Went Turner simply because I never have shares of him. I like to diversify when possible. I have Blackmon in about half of my leagues.
We considered the exact same list of players for the 1st pick, although I also had Kershaw and Kluber in the mix.
I like goldy, even at 2. Humidor is overblown