Fantasy Keeper Decisions: Part Two
I originally planned to write about something different today, but 125 comments have compelled me to revisit yesterday’s topic. I intentionally left out a lot of details, league history, and my own thoughts so you could work on attacking the problem with as little framing as possible.
If you’re disinclined to follow the link, I wrote about a tough keeper decision. It’s a linear weights, points league with shallow rosters and a snake draft. I may keep four players at previous draft price minus two rounds. So if I drafted Christian Yelich in round 15, I can keep him in round 13. I lose only that pick. If I keep multiple players from the same round, I lose that round plus the next round. This mostly happens with first round picks. Here are my choices.
| Player | Keeper Cost |
|---|---|
| Andrew McCutchen | 1 |
| Giancarlo Stanton | 1 |
| Adrian Beltre | 1 |
| Jose Abreu | 3 |
| Johnny Cueto | 10 |
| Corey Kluber | 11 |
| Christian Yelich | 13 |
| Edwin Encarnacion | 15 |
| Sonny Gray | 19 |
| Josh Harrison | 23 |
| Joc Pederson | 23 |
| Michael Wacha | 21 |
Now that everyone has had a chance to offer their first impressions, I’ll reveal what I consider to be the three “correct” strategies. There are different tactical choices that can be made with each strategy, so I consider there to be something like 10 or 15 “correct” combinations.
First, a little league history. Many of you asked how frequently my rivals keep players with a first round cost. It happens often, but there are usually at least three or four owners who have a first round pick. Since I’m scheduled to pick last, I would have no shot at re-drafting McCutchen. Stanton might be available, but it’s unlikely. Abreu probably would be available, but there’s definitely no guarantee.
There is another wrinkle to keep in mind. We played with 11 owners last season. There is a chance we’ll expand to 12 owners. When we add new people, we allow them to “draft” four keepers from among all cut players. Anybody I cut is very likely to be selected by a new owner.
As for my three strategic options, I can target elite talent, focus on value, or attempt to combine the two. Many commenters said targeting elite talent is the only way to go. In this case, I need to pick four from among McCutchen, Stanton, Abreu, Kluber, Encarnacion, and Cueto.
I’m presently scheduled to pick 11th and 12th in the draft, which should actually come out to the 5th and 6th picks. With those picks, I can try to game the draft. McCutchen is a top five player in our format, so I’d definitely keep him. Stanton’s right around the 12th best player, so I might be inclined to gamble on him swinging back to me with my second pick. The odds aren’t good because most of the top 12 players will be kept. Abreu is also somewhere around number 12, but I anticipate him being available. So, I could keep McCutchen, Kluber, Encarnacion, and Cueto with reasonable assurance that I could re-draft one of Abreu or Stanton – assuming we don’t add another owner. Or I could play it conservatively and select the four hitters.
The value approach is always tempting. I would have to overcome the emotional pain of losing McCutchen and probably one of my other elite talents. Thank you endowment effect for making this difficult. In this case, I need four of Kluber, Cueto, Yelich, Encarnacion, Gray, Harrison, Pederson, and Wacha. It seems some players straddle the two strategies.
I noticed a recurring theme in the comments yesterday. Several people said that the value approach won’t work. A shallow league is all about hoarding elite talent. To that, I say HA!
Last season, I kept Encarnacion, Allen Craig, Gray, and Wacha, which freed up my early picks. If I recall, I believe I picked second, fifth, 11th, and 22nd. I used those picks on Beltre, Stanton, David Price, and Freddie Freeman. I was offered McCutchen for Price straight up* about a week into the season. As such, most of my best talent can be traced back to freeing up my early picks. And for the icing on the cake, I won the league by a wide margin while setting a league record for total points.
*I didn’t specifically mention this, but a low 1400 IP cap and the points format boosts the value of elite starting pitchers (only the top 10 or so). It looks wonky, but Price for McCutchen was a reasonable swap.
Although the result was good, you might not want to try this one at home. To say “I got lucky” is an enormous understatement. Every gamble paid off. I took Abreu in the fifth round even though I had no place to play him. Cueto and Kluber were top five pitchers who just magically splashed into my lap midseason. My team was mostly healthy too. I mention this not to brag but to provide undeniable proof that the value approach is viable. You always need some luck to win a league.
Getting back to the value strategy, some of the decisions depend on how much patience you have for growth. I used this strategy last season because my alternatives were lousy. I was shoved down this path. I’m not inclined to wait two or three years for Pederson to perform above this league’s high replacement level. I might be kicking myself three years from now, but I’ve always been a win-now advocate. As such, I’m liable to take Kluber, Yelich, Encarnacion, and any fourth.
Mixing the strategies is pretty simple too, even though we’re left with a lot of combinations to consider. An obvious combination would have me selecting McCutchen plus my three locked in value picks. If it goes according to plan, I could wind up with five keepers if Stanton or Abreu land back in my hand. As long as the value picks don’t break, they could open up a repeat engagement with the strategy next offseason.
Or I could go with something like McCutchen, Stanton, Encarnacion, and Pederson. In this combination, I’ve sunk three picks into winning and one into long term value. The choice between Abreu and Encarnacion is an easy one. Abreu is better, but only by a few picks. Meanwhile, the price gap between the two players is 12 rounds.
Parting Thoughts
This post was not intended to make the “correct” choice clear. There are actually many perfectly rational approaches to this particular puzzle. I’ve described those that are most appealing to me, but there are other reasonable angles to pursue. Only one thing is clear – I’ll be keeping Encarnacion.
UPDATE: There is no pre-draft trading period
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Any strategy that involved Beltre, excluded E5, or involved 4 pitchers is wrong. Other than that you can at least make a case for anything else.
A bunch of commentators wanted to keep harrison. Thoughts?
If the league was a little deeper I would be more inclined to consider him. While he may not offer the best value this year, he should retain most of his position flexibility. That in turn offers more future flexibility.
I was originally going to write about Zobrist and Harrison today and the value of flex.
You could even make a case for excluding EE. I think he may have 2 or 3 useful seasons left in him. I’m anticipating a steep decline given his semi-frequent dances with the DL.
I can see the case for not keeping E5 because of the reasons that you mentioned, but only if you were playing for 2016.
Even then, you could get a lot by trading him.
We could look back in a year and wish we did not keep E5, but the odds are so much in your favor.
Yeah, you *could* make a case for excluding EE, but it would probably be a not-great one.
keep stanton and encarnacion then do what you want.
also stanton, mccutchen, abreu and encarnacion would all be someone first pick in a 12 team league. talk about have 10 of the best players.
E5 is no brainer. Yellich has lot value. Kluber/Cueto very valuable in your league. I’d go abreau over cutch and stanton cause of 2 rds of value. harrison is interesting. I see him going in lot of drafts around 8th-10th rd. If you think that is accurate value, then he is a keeper consideration.
mccutchen only beat abreu in avg and stolen bases. he could get cheap SBs.
could you trade abreu because encarnacion would be your 1b. abreu is good but encarnacion is cheap. you could get another player for a keeper.
If top SPs are so valuable isn’t that an argument for keeping Kluber since he may well maintain in that top tier? (Cueto has more injury worries plus he’s older and a higher round pick for you.)
Seems even more obvious to me now that Cutch, Abreu, Kluber and EE is the way to go …
I think it is imperative to keep mccutchen and stanton since those are two elite talents that are hard to replace (and they are young).
Also if you look at overall top 12 players, how many players would you pick over them and will any of those players be available to you? It is a risk, but I would rather go with guarantee than not knowing.
Keeping encarnacion is a no brainer because of the value.
You also mention the value of pitching. Would Johnny Cueto or Kluber come back to you around round 10-11? If your league is very pitching heavy, you don’t want to be caught playing the scarcity game with tier 1-2 pitcher runs.
A major plus in Harrison’s favor, aside from counting as a 23rd round pick, is the fact that he plays 3b, a position that is fairly weak. Most of the top 3B have been injury prone over the past several years. He could be top 5 by the end of this season. Depending on your league’s minimum requirements he could also be eligible at 2B, yet another weak position.
If you were to take him as a keeper I would toss Abreu back because you would already have Encarcion for 1B plus you have stated that Abreu would likely still be available in round 2
I would hope you’ll be notified of a 12th team before you have to choose your keepers, as that is highly material info. But for your team, I’m actually not sure it would make a difference to me.
For me, if no team is added, McCutcheon, Stanton, Kluber, and Encarnacion then hope Abreu is still available.
If a team is added, you have to do McCutcheon, Stanton, Kluber and Encarnacion and know Abreu won’t be available.
As for Pederson and others like that, I don’t see the point. There are always guys like that available. If you really believe in someone, then draft him at 17 or whatever round he would actually cost you. You don’t win a league by getting a 17th rounder in the 23rd round. You win by picking the 5th round values in any round past 12 while getting great production from your top guys. So if you think Pederson is that guy, just buy him where you need to.
In a non keeper league, if you came out of your first three rounds with McCutcheon, Stanton, and Abreu, and then pulled a Kluber and Encarnacion so much later in the draft, it would be impossible to wipe the smile from your face. No need to over think this. When your team is stacked, you leverage the advantage.
I understand your point about last year’s options, but that’s last year. This year you have 4 first round values that under the right circumstances can end up on your team. Don’t pass it up.
Sorry, I screwed up with costs. You keep Abreu and hope Stanton is there. No way either will be around for pick 3.
I tend to agree with most that you keep the elite players. I would keep Cutch, Stanton, Abreu & EE. You would then have the 1st pick in the 4th Round. I’m sure you can get a quality SP with that pick or the next round. I assume that outside the Top 10 SP, the water gets pretty muddy, so I would look for Top 10 talent like Matt Harvey, Jose Fernandez, Cueto, Gerritt Cole, Hamels, Wainright, Tanaka, Garrett Richards, etc. And if the stars align, you may be able to snag a Kluber, Scherzer or Darvish with that #34 (#37) pick.
The only other option I would consider is Cutch, Abreu, EE & Kluber and gamble that you can get Stanton with the 1st pick in the 2nd Round.
I agree with the strategy but not the specifics… even in a keeper league I’m not taking Fernandez that early given he’s out until June. Waino is 33 and declining due to health issues – I’ll pass at that point. Garrett Richards?! WAY early on that one. I expect Hamels, Scherzer, and Darvish to be kept/gone by that point… but hey, Kluber may end up coming back after all
Cutch, Abreu, Kluber, EE. You get value and studs.
Could you do an article about keepers with dollar values?
Can you trade draft picks? If so perhaps trade down in the second to someone who wouldn’t use that pick to keep someone (for a beneficial pick swap somewhere later in the draft) and then keep Stanton+McCutch (+ whoever else).
I say look for someone that you project to keep 3 players. If they happen to have a player with better value than anyone in your top 4, trade them 2 for 1.
With the information that stud pitchers are extremely valuable and that your second round pick is likely to be pick 6 or so, I’d go McCutchen, Abreu, Kluber, EE. Pick #6 + Kluber is better than Stanton + 11th rounder.
BTW< you didn't mention if trading is possible
I’ll keep it simple. Who would you rather keep? Freddie Freeman or Yasiel Puig?
Puig
Why do you say that?
Comparable player except he has top 5 overall upside.
Look the simple fact is that you can win keeping any 4… you can have a total flop among your keepers and get lucky with your draft picks and on the waiver wire… you could probably win (or lose) with any number of different combinations… but that doesn’t change the fact that keeping the 4 elite hitters is the BEST and EASIEST path to winning. There is simply far too much good pitching to go around to be overly concerned with keeping Kluber and/or Cueto with EE/Stanton/Cutch/Abreu on your roster. I strongly feel this is the best strategy. As for leaving Stanton off… the guy can develop into a legit 40-50 HR guy in a power-depressed sport… I would not even consider it. As you said, Cutch is top 3 and EE at 15 is too good to pass up. To me, those 3 must be kept at all costs… your league mates would have to be brain dead not to take Stanton before your pick (I guess that’s a possibility). You could choose to leave Abreu but at a 3rd round cost WHY? Just doesn’t make sense. But do what you want… even if you keep Cutch/Stanton/EE/Kluber you’re still likely to win… I just think you’ll be making it harder for yourself. And why do that?