Trading 401

As we get closer to our league trade deadlines, I wanted to follow up with more thoughts on trading after my piece a couple of weeks ago. Then, I talked about throwing player values out the window and trading for needs based on your position in the various statistical categories. Don’t worry about overpaying if you still expect the trade to net you positive points. That concept still applies, probably even more so now, but I also wanted to share some other random thoughts and go more in-depth on that idea.

In the last article, I talked about determining exactly how many points you can gain and lose in every category. I actually perform this exercise and create a little table in Excel that looks like this:

Standings pts

Column B represents the points I could reasonably gain in each category without any trades or free agent pick-ups. Column C represents how many points my team could lose in those categories, again assuming I don’t trade anyone away and my team remains the same. Column D is the sum of the absolute values of the gain and loss columns. I want to know which categories have the potential for the most total movement; those are the ones I need to focus on.

The ratio categories are a bit difficult to assess as I’m not exactly sure how high or low they may actually end up. So I’m being conservative here by maybe thinking I could gain or lose an extra point than I might actually be able to, and I recommend you do the same. I’m in a weird spot, as I’m leading this league league in both home runs and runs scored, not a pair you usually see. How does one acquire RBI and steals without valuing batting average, runs scored or home runs?! Anyhow, the table quickly allows me to identify what types of hitters could help me most and that players like Chris Johnson and Marco Scutaro are absolutely worthless to my team.

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed.
We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member.
1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other.
2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off.
3. Dark mode and Classic mode!
4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them.
5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects.
6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.)
7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only.
8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO.
9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members.
10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features!
We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it.

Next, you could set up another spreadsheet detailing all of your players’ projected RoS contributions. It might look something like this:

Player stat contributions

You would project whether each player on your roster will contribute positive (+), neutral (blank) or negative (-) value in each category over the rest of the season as compared to replacement level at his position. This enables you to quickly visualize who is contributing in which categories and how that relates to your teams’ strengths and weaknesses. Cross-reference this table with the one above and instantly learn who you should be looking to trade away.

Trading From Depth

In my various fantasy leagues, I consistently see pretty good players sitting on the bench who in my opinion have positive value and should be starting for a team. Whether the reason this player is sitting on the bench is because he is amid a cold streak and was reserved “until he heats up” (a mistake by the way) or the fantasy owner is starting a better player at the position said reserve player qualifies for, this fantasy owner is giving up potential points.

On the surface, holding onto these players seems like a good idea. They provide a nice safety net in case of injury and peace of mind has emotional value. But you only accrue stats from your active players and guys sitting on your bench are worthless. Why go all season with a $5-$10 player just to have around in the event of an injury? What if that injury never occurs (something you obviously are hoping for!)? You have just wasted an opportunity to parlay your depth into more production from your active roster.

So what’s the solution? A 2-for-1 trade. These are my favorite, though sometimes opposing owners dislike receiving them as they consider it a quantity for quality trade. But this type could still benefit the team receiving the two lesser quality players. By executing this type of trade, you use your depth to improve your active lineup, the group that actually affects your stats. You don’t necessarily have to trade your bench player either; instead, you could opt to trade the better player you currently have active at that position, along with another hitter you decide to upgrade. Move your currently benched player into the slot of the player you traded away and no longer do you have a positively valued player wasting away doing you no good.

Anatomy of a Trade

Now let’s put all these ideas together. In the Tout Wars mixed draft league (I’m in first!), there have only been five trades made all season. Of those five, I was involved in four of them. That’s not normal, as I’m usually not a big trader. But my trades this year in this league all relied on trading from positional or categorical depth. I kept picking up players who turned out to be starter worthy and made a trade that took advantage of this to upgrade somewhere. It’s true that in deeper leagues, it makes a little more sense to keep some depth around given the slim pickings in the free agent pool. But I hate seeing my bench players perform well and provide value that I’m not benefiting from. Rather than bore you with the details of all of my trades, I want to just share how my latest deal went down.

I performed the analysis I described above (though those tables are actually for my home league, not Tout) and concluded that I can spare OBP (the leagues uses on base percentage instead of batting average) and runs scored, and could use some help in home runs and RBI. That made Shin-Soo Choo expendable, with the goal of acquiring a slugging outfielder hitting in the middle of a batting order. I projected Giancarlo Stanton to lead baseball in home runs before the season and he sits tied for first in the Steamer RoS projections in the category. So, he was target #1. As discussed earlier, I no longer care so much about overpaying. I know I need Stanton and I will do what I need to in order to get him, as long as I expect it to result in a net points gain.

Luckily enough, his owner posted a message nearly a month ago that Stanton was available. But…it was for an ace starter. Normally I jump on pitching for hitter deals. The problem was that as much as Stanton fit on my team, I had no obvious hitter to bench. If I had made an ace for Stanton deal, I would then put myself into the exact depth situation described above, where I would feel that I would need to make another trade! So after trying to figure out how to make an ace starter for Stanton work and even bringing another team into the negotiation, things didn’t work out. But I didn’t stop there on my quest. I first attempted to simply swap Choo for Stanton, a trade I genuinely believed to be fair. Unfortunately, that was declined.

Then on Sunday night’s FAAB run, I won the newest Mariners closer, Lord Danny Farquhar (he will now be known as Lord Farquhar due to the similarity between his last name and Lord Farquaad from Shrek). I didn’t need a closer because I already have three of them and rank second in the saves category. But, I knew adding another one would give me additional depth and allow me to make a trade to add more value to my team. One of the bidders for Farquhar was indeed the Stanton owner. Bingo! I came back to him suggesting a Choo and either Farquhar or Cishek for Stanton deal. I knew that based on pure fantasy value in this league, I was probably overpaying a bit. But based on my position in the various categories, this is exactly what I needed to do. He accepted last night shortly before the weekly lineup deadline and I was delighted.





Mike Podhorzer is the founder of ProjectingX IQ, an advanced fantasy baseball analytics platform that transforms projection data and in-season performance signals into actionable intelligence. He is the 2015 Fantasy Sports Writers Association Baseball Writer of the Year and three-time Tout Wars champion. He is the author of the eBook Projecting X 2.0: How to Forecast Baseball Player Performance, which teaches you how to project players yourself. Follow Mike on X@MikePodhorzer and contact him via email.

29 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Josh M
12 years ago

I gave one small quibble, I guess it could change league to league but isn’t there a benefit to having a productive player on your bench in that the player isn’t producing for your competition?

tylersnotes
12 years ago
Reply to  Josh M

productive bench players make great trade targets, and if you can trade value for value then the assumption is any benefit the player gives to the competition will be made up for by the player you get in return. I think this is where mike’s analysis of where you can spend from comes in handy– if you’re dealing a player like choo to a team that could jump up in the ranks with an upgrade to obp and/or runs, then maybe the value choo has for them is greater than the value stanton has for you. but keeping choo and getting none of his value is still worse for you than trading him and getting someone else’s value.

Giovani
12 years ago
Reply to  Josh M

Absolutely – I always take a quick glance at the standings to see if the trade could help the owner leapfrog me in a category or two. I also look to see who can leapfrog the guys right in front of me and try to trade to them.

Lenard
12 years ago

Mike, just some quick analysis of a trade I just swung, if it pleases you…
Traded away Wil Myers for Jose Bautista and Bobby Parnell. He’ll be able to keep Myers for as long as he wants but Joey Bats and Parnell aren’t keepable for me. I’m in 7th in a H2H (hate the format but all my friends love it) where the top 6 make the playoffs.

Rodney
12 years ago
Reply to  Lenard

Ewww….

tylersnotes
12 years ago
Reply to  Rodney

it’s a shame you weren’t able to get anyone keepable in return, but if this will help you make the playoffs it sound savvy to me. having myers available, it’s a little sad you couldn’t get even more for him, but this sounds reasonable to me.

The Rajah
12 years ago
Reply to  Lenard

That one will bite you in the ass for the next 15 years.

Lenard
12 years ago
Reply to  The Rajah

We use a tiered keeper system, roughly rounds 1-8, 9-16, 17-24, and FA. They stay the same tier for as long as you keep them. Option to keep 2 FA instead of a 17-24. Myers is a FA tier. My plans are to keep Segura and Jose Fernandez in the FA tier, was debating between those 3. I could potentially keep Bautista in the first tier, but I have better options in Stanton or Goldschmidt.

Help
12 years ago

I like the article.

But I’m not sure how to make the second graph. How can you tell which players will be helpful (+), neutral ( ), or negative (-) in a scoring category for the remainder of the season? I think I could guess with SB/HR/AVG, but I have no idea for the other stats!

I’d really appreciate it if someone could explain this to me!

tylersnotes
12 years ago
Reply to  Help

I bet if you do not have your own projections for rest-of-season value, you could find some website somewhere that provides that information.

Help
12 years ago
Reply to  tylersnotes

Okay…

Having projections would be helpful, but how would you determine which numbers are actually going to help you vs. hurt you?

If player A RoS has 45 runs, Player B RoS has 30 runs, and player C RoS has 47 runs, how do I know if all or none of these guys will help/hurt me in runs?

Where do we get the average RoS totals???

Dennis
12 years ago

Love the article as I just did something very similar. Swooped up Jim Henderson as soon as K-Rod was traded and then flipped him and Brett Gardner for Zack Greinke. I already had K. Jansen, Holland, and Nathan as my closers (HNNNNNNNG!) but wanted an extra pitcher to secure my staff and he was last in saves and was about to lose Nelson Cruz to suspension. Now I’ve got Lee, Latos, Greinke, Moore, Sanchez, Ryu, and Lackey down the stretch to make a title run as the #1 seed. Much better than my Sale + Myers for Bautista trade earlier in the year…

Whydidilose
12 years ago

Mike,

Any chance of adding a H2H section to the article too? I think things are a little different in H2H vs. Roto when it comes to deadline trading..

David WiersMember since 2016
12 years ago

401 level class huh?

“But Professor Podhorzer, I *really* need to get Jose Fernandez on my team! Isn’t there anything I can do to change your mind?

/slowly approaches the desk”

David WiersMember since 2016
12 years ago
Reply to  Mike Podhorzer

Dude, I demand to TA that. Or at least be a guest speaker.

A mustachioed business tycoon
12 years ago
Reply to  David Wiers

Was just telling my gal that if you can imagine a subject, there’s porn featuring it. I’ve been proven wrong.

Consider this to be an open offer to join me in producing my first feature film: “The Sleeper and the Bust on Her Posey”

Jasper FranciscoMember since 2017
12 years ago

2-for-1 trades can be difficult because most fantasy experts say you should always be getting the best player in a trade.

STEALTH
12 years ago

Unless you have holes in your roster. If you can’t get a decent SS to save your life but are over full with 1B/OF/utility guys, it may be worth giving up Fielder for Desmond + Player B.

STEALTH
12 years ago
Reply to  STEALTH

Basically I’m trying to say that if you’re receiving the two worse players, those two players should both fill needs while the one better player you gave up should come from your team’s strength.

C
12 years ago

If everyone always gets the best player in a trade then no trades will ever happen. This is a theoretically untenable argument. Trades would only occur if one party knows more than the other.

dirck
12 years ago

In trading ,my first consideration is whether or not the trade will help my team.I play in fairly deep leagues( 16 team ,10 DL spots ,7 minor league spots ). I almost always have tradeable depth somewhere because I work the free agent list pretty hard,even though there isn’t much there and usually have guys moving up from the minors as well. I am willing to overpay ,especially if I am dealing from surplus ,to fill a hole or holes .Example ,before the season started this year ,I traded Price,A.Gordon,Headley ,and L.Cain for Trout and G. Cole .In this case ,I also had Scherzer ,Buchholz,Holland ,Anibal, Garza,B.Anderson and Cashner,so Price wasn’t indispensible . I had Wright at 3B so Headley was surplus, Trout would replace Gordon in LF and I had McCutchen in CF ,so Cain was surplus . I usually try to get a guy that the other team is undervaluing as a throw-in also ,hence Cole .

JasonJ
12 years ago
Reply to  dirck

Trading is such a pain now. It must be due to everything being internet/e-mail based. I remember playing in leagues in the 90’s when you actually called people and worked out deals over the phone – there seemed to be a lot more trades back then.

Now it seems like everyone just throws out junk offers hoping some idiot will bite – a lot easier to do over e-mail.

dirck
12 years ago
Reply to  JasonJ

Jason ,agreed ,there is so much less give and take via the internet than there used to be on the phone . Now it seems like most initial internet offers are ridiculous crap and I just tell the other guy “no thanks” rather than try to go through the 12 e-mails and countless mis-understandings that usually just end up in one guy or the other getting pissed off .

Andreas
12 years ago

“Column D is the absolute value of the sum of the gain and loss columns. ”

Nitpicking, but it’s actually the sum of the absolute values of the gain and loss columns.