SF Giants Outfield: Depth Chart Discussions

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it, right? That was the Giants’ philosophy in 2011, the year after winning the World Series, and that’s their philosophy now, heading into the 2013 season less than one year removed from their second title in three years. But things didn’t turn out so well for the Giants back then and given the current state of their outfield today, things don’t look so good now either. It was Albert Einstein who said, “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results,” and given the current state of their outfield, I’d say the Giants are insane.

Before we get into it, let’s take a look at a quick depth chart:

Right Field: Hunter Pence/Gregor Blanco/Andres Torres
Center Field: Angel Pagan/ Gregor Blanco/Andres Torres
Left Field: Gregor Blanco/Brandon Belt/Andres Torres

Now don’t get me wrong here. When I say the Giants are insane, it’s not because I think that their outfielders played over their heads last season and are going to regress. Defensively, they are sound and believe me, it’s pretty tough for any of them to be worse offensively. I say the Giants are insane because so much happens during a championship run and, for lack of a better way to say it, things come together in some sort of cosmic, ethereal way that allows them to come back from an 0-2 deficit against Cincinnati, to come back from a 1-3 deficit against St. Louis and then to sweep Detroit for the title. If someone has some sort of empirical evidence that predicted that run, by all means, show it to me and I’ll shut up.

But since this is RotoGraphs, I’ll stick to the fantasy aspect and save my opinions of the Giants rewarding a 31-year old Pagan with a four-year, $40M deal or their decision to not upgrade their left field spot with a more potent bat for another time. So let’s just talk fantasy.

Obviously, the biggest bat in the outfield belongs to Pence over in right field. He won’t be platooning at all so a full season’s worth of at-bats can be expected. What can be expected from that full season’s worth of at-bats is a much different story. While Pence has been one of the more consistent producers in both fantasy and reality over the last five seasons, hitting between 22 and 25 home runs each year with 90-plus RBI over the last three seasons, he saw a major drop last year when he came over to the Giants. After batting .271 with 17 home runs over 391 at-bats with the Phillies, he hit just .219 with seven home runs over 219 at-bats for the Giants. For the season, Pence had 109 at-bats at AT&T Park and hit just .220 with three home runs.

Now sure, his RBI total looked great, but that had more to do with Buster Posey’s ridiculous second half than anything else. It’s pretty tough to be a major league hitter and not post great RBI totals when the guy in front of you is batting .385 with a .465 on-base percentage.

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The bottom line is that Pence now poses somewhat of a risk. Sure, his numbers look consistent if you just check out the overall counting stats, but there are definite concerns with the batting average, the increased strikeout rate, the dip in power and the decline in steals. You have to factor in his performance moving from a pair of hitter’s havens in his career to one of the tougher parks to hit for consistent power as well. In the NFBC, he’s going in the seventh round (ADP of 105.36) and is the 28th outfielder off the board. Personally, for that price, I’d leave him to someone else.

Pagan is actually a very underrated fantasy player and if I’m playing in a league that requires starting five or six outfielders, I’m definitely giving him consideration for rounding out the position. He’s got an ADP of 167.75 which comes out to somewhere in the 11th round and that’s not too bad if you’re looking for roughly 30 stolen bases with an average somewhere in the mid to high .280’s. While there’s been some fluctuation in his walk and strikeout rates, both have been respectable and should hopefully remain in the same range, at least for this season. We’ll see as he gets older, but for now, he seems like a pretty safe bet. He’s not going to dazzle you with some crazy breakout season, but for what he gives you and the consistency he brings, he’s definitely a fine choice.

Blanco, on the other hand, is a different story. He’s 29-years old and last season was the most playing time he has seen since 2008. He’s bounced around a couple of teams and gone back and forth to the minors quite often but found a home with the Giants last year. He’s got minimal pop in his bat, a little bit of speed (ran a little over his head last year, in my opinion), and a weak batting average. He might be a good temporary solution if you’re dealing with injuries, but he’s not someone to have in your fantasy lineup on a regular basis.

He also will see the bench a little more often as the Giants will be shifting Belt from first base to left field on days that Posey needs a rest from behind the plate. How often the Giants decide to do that is unknown, but it will obviously happen more as the season progresses. Figure those road trips to the midwest and east coast during the dog days of summer as the peak times to see that happen. With that, it makes Belt a decent option in the outfield and I’d be more inclined to draft him there than at first base. For more on him, check out the Giants Infield Depth Chart Discussion which came out on Monday.

And finally, pulling up the rear is outfield back-up Andres Torres. He had a great run in 2010, but has literally done nothing since. If you have him on your fantasy team at the end of your draft, you did something wrong. Really wrong.

 





Howard Bender has been covering fantasy sports for over 10 years on a variety of websites. In addition to his work here, you can also find him at his site, RotobuzzGuy.com, Fantasy Alarm, RotoWire and Mock Draft Central. Follow him on Twitter at @rotobuzzguy or for more direct questions or comments, email him at rotobuzzguy@gmail.com

8 Comments
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glib
13 years ago

I think

1) Torres is there for defensive replacement purposes or pinch running, mostly. He is the 5th outfielder.

2) The 4th OF is probably a race between Herrera (396/632 in the Venezuelan League) and Cole Gillaspie (several years of 1000+ OPS in Reno, a hitter paradise), both righties. Kieschnick will be given a look, but really, it is the two righties that the Giants have an interest on, as platoon mates for Blanco, and you have to believe that Arias may be given chances too, since he hit so well against lefties last year.

3) Blanco himself hit 413/414 in the Venezuela League, same team as Herrera. He has done something to make the Giants brass think that he will further improve. If he hits 360/360, he will be useful. 370/370, he will be a minor star.

The Giants are still fishing for free talent. In the old days, the sabermetric community was big on free talent, Petagine, Catalanotto and a number of other guys. I think if one of Herrera/Gillaspie hits 800 against lefties, LF will be all right, providing a few WARs from LF for a couple of millions. The Giants are doing the same thing for 7th reliever/mop up man, making minor leaguers compete against free talent such as Rosario. They have so many interchangeable parts, they must be tough on Fantasy League participants. But they have been successful in the recent past, with Arias and Blanco contributing in 2012.

I do expect mediocrity from Pagan and decline from Pence. On the other hand, Pence will be costing himself 50M if he repeats 2012. After holes are identified, there is always July 31. There will be teams interested in trading for Monell, and/or pitching prospects.

Travis LMember since 2016
13 years ago
Reply to  glib

Of course, Pence may be “costing himself 50M if he repeats 2012”. But if he had the ability to decide to be a better player, wouldn’t he have put that into effect last year? I flat out don’t buy the “contract year” argument.

STEAMER has Blanco at .322OBP .328SLG. I’d have to guess 360+ OBP is his 99% projection.

I can appreciate the rose colored glasses as well as anyone, but your comment makes it appear as though you’re assuming ceilings on many of these retreads.

It’s especially frustrating because Brandon Belt is the right answer (unless they’ve announced he’s starting at 1B, then ignore this sentence).

Wobatus
12 years ago
Reply to  Travis L

Nice contract year from Pence. 🙂

obsessivegiantscompulsive
13 years ago

Pence had his great RBI numbers with the Giants not just because Posey was getting on base like crazy, it was because Pence hit like he normally hits for his career when there were men on base, but for some reason he could not buy a hit when he was batting with no RISP (empty or man on first).

Sabermetrics tells us not to rely on small sampling and that is what his failure was at last season, hitting with no RISP for the Giants. Otherwise, he hit like normal for the Phillies and with RISP for the Giants. He just had an off two plus months with the Giants when hitting with no RISP, which was about the opposite of when he was with the Phillies, hitting well with no RISP but not with RISP.

Even with his poor hitting in AT&T while with the Giants, he still has a career .259/.318/.425/.743, which is not that bad considering how bad his 2012 was with the Giants, and that was against the Giants top pitchers, not the motley crew of starters other teams threw at him when he was with the Giants. So there is nothing written yet about how he’s going to hit in AT&T going forward, plus RHH has suffered less hitting there than LHH, in terms of HR power, historically.

You call the Giants insane but where is it said that they were doing the same thing over and over again with the outfield? Their budget, as large as it is ($130M+), was pretty much accounted for when the season ended. They chose to spend that money on relief pitching, which, by the way, is how they came back from 3-1 deficits in the series, their bullpen held off the other teams allowing their offense to beat the other teams.

As much as people want to complain about Pagan’s 4 year, $40M deal, people forget to mention that Pagan has averaged 4.0 WAR/150 games over the past four years. If you count off with 0.5 declines – 3.5, 3.0, 2.5, 2.0 – he’s still earning his salary in his last salary year AT TODAY’s PRICES (which I’m estimating at $5M/WAR).

You also neglect to mention that Brandon Belt will be seeing some time in LF because of the need to keep Posey’s bat in the lineup when he’s not catching. If there is a need to switch to him, they could do that, while moving Posey to 1B and starting Sanchez at C full-time, if the OF stinks as bad as you fear. And like last season, the Giants could always trade for someone to play LF if necessary, they have Pagan, Blanco and Torres capable of playing CF well defensively, while a mixture of the three platooning should give good value offensively, as CF has a lower threshold for offense.

So if they had signed someone to fill the LF hole as you put it, then the team would have had to sacrifice another position, for example, no Scutaro at 2B (they have no viable replacement there), letting go of Affeldt or Casilla, two key relievers, and perhaps no Pagan in CF (and as much as I like Blanco, he’s a downgrade there from Pagan). You make it seem like there is no consequence to doing what you suggest – Duh, sign a better LF! – when they would have had to do a similar sacrifice at another position to implement your idea. These consequences are often missed in analyses like this.

obsessivegiantscompulsive
13 years ago

Oops, OK, you did mention Belt in LF (I was remembering the depth chart).

It is known given today’s circumstances what the Giants will do. Bochy said that he will play Posey much like he did in 2012, swapping him out of catching at roughly the same rate, to keep him fresh for the playoffs. That’s why Belt is playing LF in spring training as the Giants want him in the lineup oftentimes when Posey is moved to 1B. That’s the advice I would give Fantasy players regarding Belt, he can be expected to get a full season’s worth of play assuming he can continue the successes that he had last season. He’s a much bigger question mark, though, than Pence, who has a long history of hitting well.

Pagan is a worthy pick if you need SB, runs, and BA, and can expect to play full-time, though I must note that Rowand, despite his big contract, was sat down to make way for a better producing player by Bochy, so a big contract is no guarantee of playing time. Still, Blanco is so far below that I can’t imagine Pagan not playing full-time.

I wouldn’t bother selecting any other Giants OF for fantasy play. Blanco and definitely Torres won’t play full-time, Bochy has already said that they are platooning and that Belt will see regular time there when Posey is playing 1B, which he did in 29 games there in 2012. And it is doubtful any other OF would get significant time.

Belt would be good for anyone’s bench. He should hit for some power – probably. He has been struggling to find his swing, and really, battling himself, if you have been following him closely enough. But he had 9 HR in 187 AB in 2011, so he can muscle up when he’s going good, he’s just struggling to bring together his power to go with his on-base abilities. Still, after struggling hard his first two months, in his last four months he hit .289/.365/.447/.812 with 7 HR in 311 AB, not great HR power, but I would view that more as his downside and the 21 AB/HR rate he had in 2011 as his upside. He’ll probably fall in-between.

On top of that, he also steals bases pretty well. So if you can use a mostly full-time starter, who can play both LF and 1B, hit low double-digits in HR and steals, with upside of 20-30 HR, plus good BA, OK runs, and OK RBI, he would be a good add to your bench for when your starters are sitting, or if you lost out on good 1B by focusing on other positions, he wouldn’t be a bad choice to have around for 1B for you.

glib
13 years ago

Yes, I forgot the 70 AB or so that Belt will get in LF. There is also Gary Brown, the mirror (righty) image of Greg Blanco. After a bad 2012 season, he has shown improvement in the AFL. IMHO, still not ready, and Kieschnick=Pill. But I think Blanco will beat 322/328, that Pence will remain around 670 and therefore a worse player than Blanco, and that Pagan will possibly lose half a WAR, as stated above. The real problem is not Blanco at $1.8, it is Pence at $13.8.

Barry Lamar Bonds
13 years ago

Come on guys, they were down 0-2 vs CIN– at least get the easy stuff right.