Rebuilding in a Dynasty League
Massive dynasty leagues have become increasingly popular among fantasy baseball players in the past half decade. They tend to involve much larger rosters than standard rotisserie leagues and may or may not utilize a contract system that impacts the amount of time an person can own rights to a player.
The most-difficult question a fantasy owner must address in a dynasty league, though, does not take place on draft day. Most of the time, the mind-numbing conundrum occurs midseason when an owner must decide whether or not his or her team will buy, sell, or hold. It’s not a simple question to address, as rebuilding in a larger dynasty league isn’t generally a one-and-done deal. Those rebuilding jobs literally take two or three seasons, at the very least. Embarking on such a strategy isn’t fun, nor is it easy to do well.
As someone who is currently undergoing a massive rebuild in a 20-team dynasty league with 40-man rosters and 35 keepers per year, I wanted to offer a few pieces of advice to owners who have decided they want to sell.
(1) Be aggressive and sell early.
If you’ve decided to pull the trigger and begin the rebuilding process, the worst thing one can do is half-commit. I’m not suggesting one should engage in a complete firesale and move every big-league piece in favor of prospects, but it pays to go big and to go early. After all, if you beat everyone to the party, you can have your pick of the prospects or young players you want to target. Additionally, and perhaps most importantly, being the first one to sell allows you to avoid negotiating against people, and it places the rebuilding owner in the driver’s seat. If you adore someone like Javier Baez, the worst-case scenario for a rebuilding owner is to have the Javier Baez owner negotiating with three or four rebuilding teams. You want to corner that market.
In my current rebuilding process, I’ve made five separate deals. It’s the middle of May. While certainly aggressive, I’ve been talking to other owners who are debating on whether they want to sell, and they’re lamenting the lack of attractive prospects on the trading block. Why? Because many of those prospects that were available are now on my squad. I beat my competing owners to the punch, and now they’re wanting to sell without anything they want to buy.
(2) Target players in Double-A and Triple-A, if not in the big leagues.
Engaging in a rebuilding process is difficult. It’s even more difficult when that rebuilding process takes three or four years to come to fruition because you’re waiting on guys in A-ball to make it to The Show. Not only do those players have a higher risk of flaming out before reaching the majors, but as an owner, you’re also forced to twiddle your thumbs for a couple of years with nothing productive happening.
Targeting MLB-ready players — or at least near MLB-ready players — shortens the rebuilding process as much as possible. Again, using myself as an example, I’ve acquired guys like Jon Singleton, Oswaldo Arcia, Trevor Bauer, Rymer Liriano, Maikel Franco, Alex Meyer, Luis Sardinas, Jarrod Parker, Mike Foltynewicz, Yorman Rodriguez, and Sean Nolin (and a couple lower-level players). There’s an exceedingly-small chance all of those players panning out. However, I’m building a wide base of players who have the chance to be at least league-average players, and in a 20-team league with 40-man rosters and 35 keepers, that depth is crazy important.
Importantly, though, many of those guys listed above are expected to begin breaking into the big leagues later this year, if they haven’t already. I’m shortening my rebuilding time as much as possible by acquiring guys who should contribute as soon as next season. And going back to point number one, it wouldn’t have been possible to acquire so many Double-A and Triple-A guys if I hadn’t been aggressive and sold early.
(3) Don’t be overly concerned with “winning the trade.”
Too often, trade negotiations in fantasy leagues crumble, or don’t even get beyond the initial proposal, because each side becomes too worried about winning or losing the trade. It’s the way we’ve been conditioned to evaluate trades, and when that email is sent to the entire league that announces the trade, we naturally do not want the remaining owners to view us as incompetent or foolish. Thus, owners often become too timid to accept a trade proposal unless it’s overwhelmingly clear that they’ve “won” the deal.
And, well, that doesn’t happen all that often.
When entering trade negotiations, understand your overall goal and seek to achieve that goal, even if the other owner may slightly be getting more value. And context matters. Quite simply, if you feel a trade will ultimately improve your squad with your particular roster construction, that’s what is paramount. It’s not about winning or losing the deal in the abstract. It’s about getting your team back in contention as quickly as possible.
Overall, rebuilding in deep dynasty leagues is difficult. One must have a plan, and execute that plan. But more directly, if you’re absolutely out of contention and have no hope of climbing back into contention, it pays huge dividends to sell early and beat the crowd. Focus on those prospects close to the big leagues, and short-circuit the rebuilding process as much as possible, while the remainder of the rebuilding clubs acquire A-ball prospects later in the summer and have to wait three or four years.
J.P. Breen is a graduate student at the University of Chicago. For analysis on the Brewers and fantasy baseball, you can follow him on Twitter (@JP_Breen).
Holy crap, this is 100% what I did earlier this season. I got into a new dynasty league and blew up the team I acquired because it was in that awkward spot between legit contender this season and utter crap next season. I ended up getting Taveras and Baez to go along with Bryant (whom I had gotten in the draft this year) to along with guys like Gausman and Martin Perez. Had to give up a lot of talent, including Chris Davis (and Shelby Miller, sadly) but the team feels like mine and it’s a got a much better shot at competing in 2015 and beyond so I’m happy. This year is becoming wicked boring though
Cool story bro!
Is there a kind way to tell a team that they should follow these steps? I have a bunch of teams in my dynasty league who won’t trade current assets since they think they’ll still compete.
Short answer: Yes and No
Hope that was helpful LoL
Seriously though, everyone who is in a serious/competitive dynasty trusts their skills. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t susceptible to some influence.
Start with the compliment (you’re going in the right direction, but I think you could really make a push next year, as such trade me older player A for picks and prospects B, etc)…this is a good way to not look like you are trying to hose someone.
Also do not be afraid to trade top prospects, if you are trying to convince a guy that he wins this trade and more games in the future, then he needs some tangible top prospects, guys that appear on lists that he has seen.
Lastly, blow them away in a deal…I convinced many teams they were more playing for the future whether they wanted to admit it or not by making rebuilding fun for them….I traded Yasiel Puig, Xander Bogaerts, Joey Gallo, Miguel Sano, Mike Foltyniewicz, CJ Edwards, Jurickson Profar, Lance McCullers, Jorge Soler, Billy Hamilton Etc Etc Etc so that these teams saw that I wasn’t just unloading crap, I was serious about the trade doing what it was meant to do (I got Scherzer, Hamels, Cano, Wright, Reyes, Braun, etc).
But they have to be in full commit, and you are just the guy to help them get there, I promise 🙂
Last season/this season/ I traded to rebuild and then before this season started I completely rebuilt my team again using the prospects I got during my rebuild last season.
The league set up is a 12 team Head to Head league. Both leagues. We keep all players each year. 23 man rosters and 20 minor leagues along with 6 injured spots. Minor league players have 3 options where they can be brought up and sent down without having to pass waivers. No salary cap.
Here was my plan and what I did:
I knew about week 8 last season that my team did not have what it took. My hitting was sorely lacking. My pitching was okay. So I started to trade off good major league players settling for no less than 2 top notch prospects for each player. I sold off players like Wainwright and Hamels amoung others. I even got someone to take Josh Hamilton. In the end I ended up with 11 of the top 15 prospects. Including Bradley, Sydergaard, Taveras, Polanco, Russell, Correa, Giolitto, T Walker. My plan had worked. I cornered the prospect market and rode out the season to an abysmal last place finish.
I was no the worst team however and got the second pick in the draft. I also managed a trade, the Hamilton one where I got the # 1 pick overall.
Coming into this season I was prepared to wait out my prospects but I knew that one good trade could trigger something. So I waited and waited and I got an offer for Giolitto. Jose Bautista and I took it…Then I started testing waters to see what I could get back. This time my plan was to give away one top notch prospect and some lower level ones along with mediocre MLB talent to get stars and it started working. I was able to score Fielder, I got Wainwright back, McCutchen, Carlos Gomez, Shields, Verlander for the #1 pick. Crazy! He took Bryant and then traded him back to me later.
Now my team is in first place and leads the league in points. I was able to hold onto some prospects and young players including Fernandez, Correa, dahl, Tapia, Ventura, Eddie Butler, Bryant. Along the way I even managed to get some young mostly ready MLB talent in Anthony Rendon and Xander Boegarts. The only player left in my lineup from last season is Josh Donaldson.
So it can be done, just be patient and wait for the right moment. Try to get 2 top notch prospects for one good player. Never settle for less. Build until you have most of the names and then use that power to rebuild. This time don’t give up more than one at a time unless you are getting more. I managed to hold onto Taveras for along time even when talks started with owners asking for him. I would barter down and still get what I wanted. Always talk up those prospects. Speak in potential all the time. Bryant has 40 HR potential. He could be the next Mike Schmidt. Put out those comps!
Just so you know this is not a fly by night league either. League has been going for 12 years. 9 of the 12 are original owners. 90% of the league are very baseball savvy! However baseball guys fall in love with prospects. Take advantage. This story could have been a million words long that’s why I didn’t get huge into names.
Thanks for listening…
I love this strategy. I even do it in the middle of the same season. Early on trade for prospects (example something like N Cruz for G Polanco now) and then as long as you stay in contention, as the trade deadline gets closer you can trade the same prospects you received for much more than you gave up (example Polanco for Cargo). You just have to make sure you can stay in the hunt for a couple months – otherwise you just hang onto the prospects for the following year.
Let me make sure I understand. You have a 12 team mixed league with 23 man rosters and 6 DL (so about 300 “active” players at a given time). Then you also roster 240 minor leaguers? So you’ll have guys like Howie Kendrick and Curtis Granderson pass through the waiver wire, but the best minor leaguer available will be live armed pitchers without command/control? That’s a weird format.
Well no not exactly. We play traditional lineups of 9 players. One hitter at each position and a Utility. 7 active pitchers. 16 active players and 7 reserves.
So 192 active players. yes if all minor league spots are filled that is 240 minor league players. Believe me there are plenty to go around. As a matter of fact there are always minor league guys I wish I could fit in on my team but I can’t. Also a player does not have to be in the minors to be included in our minors. They typically have to be under 27 at seasons start with less than three years of MLB experience.
Not a 100% sure what you are saying with Kendrick and Granderson but those players are not typically available on the wire. Though Kendrick was at the beginning of this season.
If you are in a league where you can do that, you don’t need to brag about it here, you need to find a more difficult league.
Sean,
Not sure why you would say such things. This is not an easy league by any stretch and the moves I made were very calculated and in many cases some might think I gave up to much in certain trades. If I took the time to show all the trades that were involved you probably would not think that I was ripping off easy targets. You have no real insight into the league and no back ground to say such things.
The league is along standing league with very shrewd owners. Sean send me your email address and next time we have an opening I’d be happy to invite you in to see your mastery. If you live in Michigan that would be even better since all the owners live in the areas about 40 miles West of Detroit.
Richard, is this one of the leagues run by Jim Scullion on ESPN.com? Very very similar concept to some leagues I used to be in that he ran. Which was all fine and well until he let his cousin take over while he was on hiatus and his cousin decided to take full advantage of LM powers and push trades and call-ups through outside of normal rules. I called him out (not knowing it was his cousin doing it), got booted and then a message that “oh that wasn’t me, that was my cousin.” 5 leagues. 3 years worth of dynasty major/minor systems. Gone. I was pretty bummed about it but now I do DFS and money is much more rewarding.
Just curious though, not meaning to rabble rouse here. In those leagues I saw some owners perform rebuilds like this constantly so it can be done even in a baseball savvy league. Just requires a notion of timing and a bit of salesmanship.
Jay,
No this is just a league that we’ve run with mostly old High School Friends mixed in with some work friends. League is run using cbssports.com
Great article, and great advice. I adopted three abandoned teams in OttoNeu. At this point in the season, you can beat other non-competitive teams to the punch and sell off high-priced players for prospects and under-valued players. You should be prepared to “lose” trades and only concern yourself with what your roster will look like next spring.
One key is using Loans to cover the salaries of players you are trading. If you trade Chris Davis, he is much more valuable if he is Free for the remainder of the season.
I am in first place in a 10 team NL only dynasty, with 90 out of a possible 100 in the 5×5. My closest competitor is 17 points behind me on a good day, and 20 on a bad day. When can I decide I have the season locked up and start looking to the future- of which I have none.
Any suggestions on how to go about it. I have no minor league system, I have Cueto at the end of his contract, Ryu-Matt Carpenter-Werth-Yelich in their final year with option to extend. My only good contracts are Carlos Gomez with 1 more season of team control, and Waino with 2 more seasons at discounted prices.
I have team friendly contracts with Niese, Estrada, and Ian Kennedy that would be attractive to some
Any ideas would be appreciated.
I used this last year in my NL only dynasty. I swapped Stras for Freeman. (Years past I never had a good 1B always platooning junk) then at the end of the year traded Freeman for Puig, d’Arnaud, Wheeler, Grilli. Which made my 8 keepers Them plus Heyward (Traded Grilli for mid last season), Kemp (traded Werth + Hamels). Pedro (traded picks) and Yelich (swapped my second round pick for his last). So far so good. Thanks for the tips, currently doing the same rebuilding in a league I took over a dead team for.
good advice — been in a 24 team dynasty league for 9 years. After the first year, realizing I couldn’t compete, did a slash/burn trade and dug deep to land guys like: Tulo, Wieters, Braun, Garza, Billingsly,.. Not all trades worked well — and I was in last place for 2 straight years, so surely took my lumps. Agree with the “don’t be concerned with winning the trades”, you have to deal current day talent to get young AA/AAA guys and usually it looks like overpay — however, if you are long-term, and try to get as many young guys as possible, the trades tend to balance themselves out over the long haul.
I took over a 12 team mixed league in the middle of the 2012 season, and it was horrible. I made some shrewd trades by gaining Braun, Cespedes, Altuve, Wacha, Cashner and Chris Davis in the last calender year. I have also since picked up Russell, Polanco, Bryant, Franco, Singleton, Bradley, Sonny and Jon Gray and Joey Gallo. My team currently is floating in the middle of the pack at around 7th place. I feel like I’m right on the cusp in the next couple years of making some noise with my current group as well as my young kids. This article does work.
I won my 10 team mixed league keeper (OBP) last year but this year is a different story. I started selling at the end of April when my team crumbled to last place. I know it was early but sometimes you see the writing on the wall. Made a few nice trades. Only 10 keepers allowed so you have to maximize your keeper contracts.
1) Got a $4 ian desmond for next year and profar together for bautista.
2) Traded a $30 Adam Jones for $7 Yelich and Jorge Soler.
3) Traded a 50 dollar miggy, $12 Yu, $24 Koji, $25 Beltre for $12 Chris Davis, $9 Werth, $1 Cashner, and a $17 Freeman.
Combine that with a $6 Kenley Jensen and a $1 Yordano Ventura, I think I am in good shape for 2015.
*insert humble brag about my incredible rebuilding process here*