Pod vs Steamer — ERA Upside
It’s pitching time! After comparing my hitter projections to Steamer, let’s now check in on the pitchers. I’ll start by comparing starting pitcher ERA from my Pod Projections with Steamer. I have decided to only list and discuss pitchers I have projected for a sub-4.00 ERA. Do you really care if I project a pitcher for a 4.40 ERA versus 5.50 by Steamer? Nope. I also left out two free agents, Jake Arrieta and Alex Cobb, who would have made this list.
Before diving into the ERA comparison, let me remind you about Steamer’s pitcher projections. They are the best. They correctly regress the luck metrics to the mean and ERA forecasts are therefore driven primarily by the underlying skills. However, sometimes that regression is applied too heavily to pitchers who have displayed real outlier skills, such as suppressing BABIP. Steamer would routinely get Chris Young and Matt Cain wrong because the system throws the baby out with the bath water. The vast majority of the time, Steamer will be right and the good (or bad) fortune will be proven with results closer to league average the following year. But there are always exceptions and any computer system is going to struggle with those.
So let’s see if any pitchers on this list fall into the outlier skills category or if there’s another explanation for the ERA projection gap.
| Player | Pod K% | Pod BB% | Pod BABIP | Pod LOB% | Pod HR/FB | Pod ERA | Steamer ERA | Diff |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Taijuan Walker | 22.1% | 8.2% | 0.286 | 74.2% | 11.8% | 3.65 | 4.55 | -0.90 |
| Ervin Santana | 19.4% | 7.8% | 0.288 | 73.1% | 11.0% | 3.96 | 4.81 | -0.85 |
| Andrew Triggs | 20.7% | 7.3% | 0.305 | 72.3% | 13.0% | 3.99 | 4.67 | -0.68 |
| Kyle Hendricks | 21.9% | 6.7% | 0.285 | 74.7% | 12.5% | 3.39 | 4.05 | -0.66 |
| Sean Manaea | 22.6% | 7.3% | 0.300 | 73.4% | 12.0% | 3.81 | 4.44 | -0.63 |
| Brandon McCarthy | 19.5% | 6.0% | 0.303 | 72.4% | 11.0% | 3.86 | 4.46 | -0.60 |
| Michael Fulmer | 19.4% | 6.7% | 0.295 | 72.9% | 12.0% | 3.78 | 4.33 | -0.55 |
| Sonny Gray | 21.1% | 8.2% | 0.290 | 73.7% | 13.5% | 3.72 | 4.26 | -0.54 |
| Zack Greinke | 23.3% | 6.1% | 0.287 | 75.2% | 11.6% | 3.31 | 3.84 | -0.53 |
| Nathan Karns | 24.1% | 9.5% | 0.295 | 73.8% | 13.0% | 3.93 | 4.45 | -0.52 |
| Rich Hill | 29.6% | 8.2% | 0.280 | 77.2% | 11.0% | 3.10 | 3.60 | -0.50 |
I would have never guessed that my Taijuan Walker projection was so bullish. Then again, this appears to be another Arizona Humidor thing. I lower all Diamondbacks pitchers’ BABIP and HR/FB rates by a small amount, which probably shaved around 0.15 off ERA. But I don’t remember for sure. Zack Greinke is likely a similar explanation. Another driver of the Walker ERA gap is our strikeout rate projections. Mine is 1.3% higher than Steamer, which is rather significant. I believe that his stuff should really be leading to better strikeout rates.
Our K%-BB% marks aren’t far off for Ervin Santana, so it’s all about the BABIP and, oddly, his LOB%. Steamer is projecting a .296 BABIP, which Santana has only reached once since 2010. The LOB% appears even more baffling, as their 70% projection would be just the second time it has sat below 71.6% since 2008! I’m no Santana fan, but this forecast looks crazy.
Assuming health, Andrew Triggs is your first true sleeper. There’s a huge discrepancy between our strikeout rate projections, but his strike type components hint at 20%+ strikeout rate skills. Oh, and he also generates an above average rate of grounders, which is key in this home run happy environment.
Welcome Kyle Hendricks, you are the first player that fits the Cain mold of breaking computer system projections. Despite just an average strikeout rate, he has posted a sub-3.00 ERA in his short career. Although there’s nothing in his batted ball profile to explain it, his BABIP has remained consistently better than the league average, and he has been quite adept at stranding runners. Steamer isn’t buying it. It’s projecting his strikeout rate to collapse below 20%, likely due to his mid-80s fastball, which was down a couple of ticks from previous seasons.
Sean Manaea is another sleeper of sorts, and I’ve discussed him as one of nine strikeout rate surgers this year, as well as put my money where my mouth is by drafting him in LABR Mixed. Steamer is projecting his strikeout rate to drop below 20%, but a strong changeup-slider combo would argue that this is too pessimistic. This is especially true when perusing his elite minor league strikeout rates.
Our Brandon McCarthy metric projections are mostly pretty close, though Steamer is forecasting a significantly higher walk rate than I am. If you throw out his 2016 when he was recovering from TJ Surgery, he hasn’t posted a walk rate above 7% since 2009! For as long as he remains healthy, he’s a nice buy in NL-Only leagues.
Well this is a shock. I’m not a Michael Fulmer fan, but that’s because he has continued to outperform his peripherals. But there’s the rub – it takes a lot for Steamer to believe a pitcher owns true peripheral beating skills. As it should. Steamer is actually projecting Fulmer to post an above league average BABIP, while I’m acknowledging there’s a slight possibility his BABIP suppression is a true skill. Another difference is a better strikeout rate from Pod, as he possesses the repertoire of a strikeout pitcher with a solid slider and changeup and mid-90s fastball.
Ahhhh Sonny Gray, back to his SIERA-beating ways after taking a break in 2016. Steamer doesn’t believe in the strikeout rate spike, despite the fact that his stuff was better than ever before, as his SwStk% surged into the low teens. And the system clearly doesn’t believe he owns BABIP suppression skills as it forecasts an above league average mark, even though he owns a .276 career mark.
Nate Karns is mostly a crapshoot given that he’s returning from thoracic outlet syndrome surgery. And we saw how that has really crushed careers of several pitchers who suffered through it in past seasons. But Steamer isn’t even aware of the surgery and still forecasts serious regression in his strikeout rate. I will admit that how he’s throwing in spring will help me decide whether to keep my strikeout rate forecast or lower it. The caveat to my projection is it assumes good health.
Another season, another projection doubting Rich Hill. Steamer is projecting dramatic regression in his strikeout rate since his resurgence in 2015. That’s in addition to a LOB% far below what he has posted in recent seasons. Sure, at age 38, it’s possible everything falls apart. But there’s absolutely nothing to indicate that the collapse is coming this season.
Mike Podhorzer is the founder of ProjectingX IQ, an advanced fantasy baseball analytics platform that transforms projection data and in-season performance signals into actionable intelligence. He is the 2015 Fantasy Sports Writers Association Baseball Writer of the Year and three-time Tout Wars champion. He is the author of the eBook Projecting X 2.0: How to Forecast Baseball Player Performance, which teaches you how to project players yourself. Follow Mike on X@MikePodhorzer and contact him via email.
Thanks Mike! I plan to use Steamer for Pitcher auction values with the Fangraphs Auction Calculator, making adjustments using insights like yours. I was wondering, what projections (Depth Charts? ATC? Still Steamer?) you would recommend starting with for Hitter auction values, if you were to use the Auction Calculator? Thanks!
Tough call. I would probably stick with Steamer, but would consider also looking at the Depth Chart projections too. Perhaps compare the two and note which players are very different.
Sean Newcomb just missed this list eh?
I wouldn’t say “just”, since I’m only 0.35 below Steamer’s ERA, and the last in the table is 0.50 off. But yeah, he’s another I like more than Steamer.
By the way, an Athletic article out today reports that Hendricks is working on a new curveball. In fact, Hendricks even describes himself as “excited” about it, which from him is saying a hell of a lot. He thinks, if/when he uses it in games, that it will be a lot better than his previous curveball, which was mostly just a gimme fourth pitch.
(Also keep in mind that as far as BABIPs go, Hendricks has played in front of the Cubs D his entire career — if you compare his BABIP to the rest of the Cubs pitchers from 2015-2017, it’s not far off from average — only the entire staff’s average is better than the league thanks to fielding. Even Hammel and Lackey posted sub-.280 BABIPs in 2016.)
Is my league in a sorry state if I actually care if you project a pitcher for a 4.40 ERA vs 5.50 ERA?
Fulmer’s BABIP suppression is a true skill. Believe it. Hopefully the K’s come.
Can you provide factual evidence of this claim? I’m genuinely curious.
“I lower all Diamondbacks pitchers’ BABIP and HR/FB rates by a small amount, which probably shaved around 0.15 off ERA.”
Pretty sure this is not a dumb question. If it affects all pitchers in that ballpark, wouldn’t it already be baked into your Arizona park factor, which means you are in effect double-counting it?
Nope, my park factors don’t have any direct effect on my projections. They are only used for my hitter xHR/FB rate that’s backwards looking. I look at them when developing my forecasts, but they aren’t part of any formulas.
What is the Arrieta ERA upside? Seems the consensus feel is that folks are down on him (whether in MLB or fantasy) — but for 2018, I like him. He had a strong second half in 2017.
He’s one Steamer will always get wrong because he has been outperforming his peripherals. His skills definitely declined in 2017 thanks to a slower fastball, but he should continue to beat his SIERA, though his new team could dramatically affect his value.
Very interesting article, and I’ll have to read the hitters one here next. However, first I have a question regarding one of your other, older articles. I was attempting to calculate xBABIP today using the formula you wrote about awhile ago, but I wasn’t able to gather all the necessary data. When I export the data on the splits leaderboard for no shift, the spreadsheet comes up with zero strikeouts for every player. I’m presuming that this should not be the case, and I should be getting numbers greater than zero in order to correctly calculate the no shift balls in play. Am I doing something wrong? Did something change? If you could help me out, that would be fantastic.
I can’t remember for sure, but just follow the formula and calculate it for a couple of players in my recent articles that mention specific player xBABIP and compare. If it matches, you’re good.
Are you all doing any fantasy positional rankings this year like in past years?
Really loved the SP rankings where different FG writers’ ranks were averaged. Thanks!
I’m curious, is there something about Marco Estrada that leaves him out of this group in your calculations? From what I can see he compares very closely to Sonny Gray.
Estrada definitely had a tough season in 2017 but there were well documented personal issues that had something to do with it. Steamer projects him to basically repeat last season’s ERA despite two far superior seasons with the Jays prior to last season. If he gets back to the 2015-16 level again – and he is looking sharp so far albeit in spring training – he should beat Steamer at a level beyond anyone on your table above.
Solely because of this line in my intro:
“I have decided to only list and discuss pitchers I have projected for a sub-4.00 ERA. ”
I’m projecting a 4.11 ERA, significantly lower than Steamer’s 4.99, so yeah, he would have made the list. He’s one of the types Steamer will always get wrong.
Can you explain how having personal issues would affect a pitcher’s BABIP? You think maybe he’s more distracted on the mound and that reduces his ability to prevent hits on balls in play? All his batted ball and Soft%/Hard% metrics are in line with past years. So it just looks like randomness to me.
Thanks! Makes sense then, although I believe he bounces back this season with an ERA below 4 I can see how your projections may take a dimmer view.
As for your question regarding BABIP obviously there is no tangible way to measure how personal issues would affect performance. Estrada has indicated he had sleep issues as a result of his off field troubles and one could understand it intruding on his concentration for games as well.
If you want to go by what is measurable then last season was the first time since 2012 his BABIP registered that high. His BABIPs with the Jays in particular have been much stronger. I wouldn’t overlook Martin’s impact here, plus Estrada thinks he may have been tipping pitches last season (possibly a result of his lack of focus?). He’s made efforts to ensure that isn’t an issue for the coming season.
These are human element things that really can’t be measured so we will have to wait to see for sure but his performance in Sept is probably closer to what to expect from Estrada. Small sample aside this is closer to how he performed in the previous two years. There is precedent for this.