It’s Ottoneu Cut Day!
Today’s the day. Your 2017 ottoneu keeper rosters are due prior to midnight tonight. All that advice to put off cutting your extraneous players can be ignored. Shed the bloat and corruption from your roster. See ya $35 Chris Davis. Didn’t find a taker for your $20 David Ortiz? Well, I’m not surprised. Goodbye forever Big Papi.
I’m here to offer some last minute advice as you make your decisions. Let’s talk about trade options and those oh-so-tricky borderline keepers. For more late breaking advice, check out the ottoneu strategy page.
Trades
Ottoneu trades take two days to process. This has important implications for your wheeling and dealing. Any player you acquire today via trade will be a keeper. Any player you sell today will be a keeper. Say it with me – all players traded today are automatically kept.
That means the silly “take-all-of-my-cuts” volume trade you’re offered needs to be countered to remove anybody you wouldn’t keep. In the past, I’ve also advocated trading players for nothing. I’ve got a $7 Luis Severino. Last year, he was everybody’s favorite pitching prospect – the Julio Urias of 2016. Now I can’t find any sort of return.
The $7 price tag seems reasonable for the Yankees fourth starter given the cost of other uncertain prospects. In our league, kept prospects are typically in the $5 to $20 bin. Only a few of the truly valuable $2 types can be found, and they’re usually flawed like Dylan Cozens or Rowdy Tellez. There’s a decent chance Severino will cost less to whoever wins him at auction. Therefore, I might try to find an owner to take him at no cost.
Most of today’s trades will probably be around the margins. Players in the $10-and-under bin who will play a backup depth role. Maybe a fair-priced core starter for a mid-tier prospect. Challenge trades of fringy $3 pitchers. Very few blockbusters are still in the works.
If you’re not pleased with the valuations you’re receiving, don’t be afraid to table talks until after the draft. You may discover your interest in a specific target wanes over time. Or maybe the draft offers a better value on a similar asset. However, don’t count on the draft as a panacea. Every year, my rivals tell me “oh, you want that much for Trout? I’ll do better via the draft.” They wind up paying out the nose for guys like Andrew McCutchen, Jason Heyward, Ryan Braun, and Wil Myers. Yes, it could work, but not with any degree of certainty. Typically, almost every player in the draft will cost more than they’re worth.
What about offers for players you’re going to cut? There’s a temptation to take anything at all. As I mentioned earlier, I’m even open to giving away Luis Severino. However, the key is that I’d be placing Severino on a non-threatening roster. I don’t mind if they make one of my rivals pay for Severino, but I don’t want to give close competitors any sort of edge. Pay attention to where your trading partner stands on the win curve.
Tricky Keep/Cuts
My roster has a number of very difficult keep/cut decisions, particularly because I’m right up against the $400 salary cap. On my roster organizer page, I have 26 players designated as keepers at a cost of $375. That would actually give me more free cash than I had last season. I won a blowout victory so I know my build can work. My success will hinge on the play of Trout, Clayton Kershaw, Goldschmidt, Nolan Arenado, Charlie Blackmon, and others. My drafted players will be assigned to patch holes like fifth outfielder and injury needs.
Players on my bubble include $21 Jason Kipnis, $4 Austin Hedges, $3 Raimel Tapia, $8 Carter Capps, $3 Greg Holland, and $3 Matt Andriese. The decision is basically between Kipnis or the rest. By waiting until the last minute to make my decision, I have some information about the marketplace. A $26 Ian Kinsler, $26 Ben Zobrist, and $10 Jonathan Schoop were cut. Plenty of teams need middle infielders, so it’s not as if I’m likely to get any of those players for less than their previous price. However, it’s a gamble I could take. I can also hope to acquire a big upgrade at a later date.
Of the available options, Kipnis is my preferred target. Subtle adjustments to his swing path allowed him to finally take advantage of his friendly home park. I expect a repeat of his 2016 power output. I anticipate a price tag around $30 via the draft. I value him at $26. Because I’m running a stars and scrubs machine, my decision is really between paying for Kipnis now or going cheap with several $1 volume plays like Brandon Phillips. He’s been a regular on my roster for the past two seasons.
A guy like Hedges is hard to value. His minimal major league experience suggests he may take time adjusting to the majors. I believe in the swing adjustments he made in the minors, even if his home park did provide some of the fuel for his 21 homer performance. Petco is much less forgiving to right-handed hitters. Since I have an affordable Jonathan Lucroy, rostering Hedges is a luxury depth move. Best case scenario, he builds some serious trade value with a couple hot weeks at the plate. The scouting report still includes doubts about his bat.
Tapia’s another tough prospect. He’s very blocked in Colorado, and that’s not likely to change anytime soon. A swap to a sea level stadium transforms him into just another toolsy outfielder. But if he can find regular reps at Coors Field…
Capps and Holland are coming off the Tommy John train. Steamer has Capps projected to pitch at a $25 pace over half a season, and that includes a lot of regression from his superb 2015 numbers. Holland’s a little harder to get behind at Coors Field. Sliders are negatively affected by the rarefied air. Holland is first and foremost a sliderballer. He’s so cheap that it might be worth the gamble anyway.
Last but not least is Andriese. He’ll compete for a rotation job. He probably has more ottoneu value as a long reliever, a role in which he posted a 2.38 ERA and .207 wOBA allowed. The difference was almost entirely BABIP and home run rates. As Jeff Zimmerman noted, his pitches have extreme outcomes which allows them to play up in relief.
So those are my bubble guys, and I have a firm payroll constraint to balance. For pricier picks, be mindful of available alternatives. Your rival’s needs are relevant too. It doesn’t matter if a dozen second basemen will be in the draft if your opponents need 15 of them. My other cut day decisions are all about 2018 and beyond. Unfortunately, there’s very little advice I can give. Contending for multiple years is all about balancing the present with the future. My success after this season may rely on that breakout Andriese stock or Capps returning to $30 form.
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Leon worth keeping at $3 as a third Catcher?
Carson Smith at $5 or Dario Alvaraz at $4 the better value?
Not a big fan of any of those.
Would really appreciate your view of $28 CarGo and $31 JD……thanks much!
Those are similar to my Kipnis. Really depends on your market and the state of your team. I prefer JDM fwiw.
Thanks very much, Brad. On different teams for me, as core OF’s. Steamer seems to prefer CarGo, but I’m leaning same as you….
Steamer’s still a little confused about his career transformation, and it doesn’t know he was injured last year.
Thanks for the insight…..and good luck with your last cuts and the upcoming season!
Are we confident in Severino securing that 4th starter role? Cause I’ve got him at $6 and I’d keep him if I was confident he’ll be in the rotation on opening day, but I have not felt confident about that yet, so was leaning toward cut
Let’s put it this way. I’m confident he’ll pitch over 100 innings as a Yankee. Not as sure that involves a spot on the Opening Day roster.
FG Points…thoughts on JD Martinez at $19 (seems like a good keeper to me) and Will Smith at $5. Also, implementing 5 MiLB Player draft this year, I have first pick…do I take Gleyber Torres?
Kinda depends on who’s available for the MiLB draft. Torres is a fine option but there may be better ones. JDM is must keep at $19. There are no scenarios where he’s a cut at that price, even if you’re already keeping 8 other OFers.
Smith is a bubble guy at $5. Depends on your budget and the state of RP in your league. They tend to be heinously undervalued in FGpts.
Thanks! I have 152.00 left and 21 spots to fill currently if that helps. Also, Brian McCann at $9.00? And please say I was smart to cut $13 Pineda and $7 Vizcaino.
Yea Pineda and Viz are easy cuts at those prices. I’d probably keep McCann if I didn’t have an alternative.
Definitely keep JDM. As for 5MiLB do you draft before auction or after? If after I doubt Torres is available. If before then he’s a solid target to go #1. Bellinger, Meadows, Robles would be up there.
Our MiLB draft starts tomorrow. Right now, with Smith, I have 19/40 roster spots filled, with $152.00 left. Took this team over and doing a bit of a rebuild.
I’m in that league. Torres is his best 5Milb option. Many prospect are kept, including all of the ones that trey mentioned. I think Torres is the only mlb top 20 (or so) available
One alternative is to go with somebody MLB ready like Jae-gyun Hwang.
Great info! Would you keep or cut Hamels at $20??
Keep.
Chris Devenski at $3
Nick Castellanos at $8
This is a 5×5 league.
Keep Castellanos
All that advice to put off cutting your extraneous players can be ignored.
That advice killed off trades in our league. Most teams even now aren’t legal for auction so you just look at the league page wondering if the league is still alive (since a ‘new owner for an abandoned team’ post-keeper will get a huge advantage in being able to cut whoever they want while everyone else is frozen). And whats the point of wasting time on offers when you get countered with obvious nonsense/crap?
Not a fan of this ‘strategy’ at all and it hurts ottoneu imo.
What you describe is atypical.
I don’t know why it would be atypical. That David Ortiz example is what the advice results in. Ortiz, Teixeira, Fernandez/Ventura are all still on rosters in my league. Why would anyone waste time thinking about making offers to that maybe-dead-certainly-delusional owner? I just don’t get the ‘advantage’ here
I’m not following. Nothing changes if the owner hangs onto his players until cut day. If they offer you crap, you tell them to piss off until they’re serious.
When a team looks like its abandoned (and nothing screams abandoned like corpses, retirees, and obvious drops), then it won’t get trade offers. Maybe others are different – but with a team like that, I’m not interested in searching thru the manure. I assume the only point of the strategy is to identify (but not trade) any $3 ponies or other guys who MIGHT be keepers. But that means that I potentially lose by even making offers and giving away info.
There’s no point dealing with that sort of owner.
Can’t say I agree with your take. I mean, if the owner isn’t interacting with the league, then fine. But we get a ton of trade block updates and message board action in our league and we confirm everyone is staying way back before arbitration. It helps that it’s a RotoGraphs writer’s league.
I don’t cut anyone until I have to as a rule. There is no advantage to cutting players early.
There was a non zero chance Ortiz would come back. Lots of owners holding onto to him till today
Every time I cut players this offseason (did so in dribs and drabs), I got a couple of offers. None of them worked this year – but at least they were all serious.
There’s not a chance in hell I even look at any trades today since everything is now keeper and I’m now down to only keepers whereas those other teams are now just flogging their manure and dropping their $3 ponies (following the other trope ‘don’t keep too many’).
So yeah I think there can be an advantage in using the entire offseason rather than just keep-or-cut day.
Keep Fowler at $19 in a points league? Would be my 3rd best OF.
That’s a reasonable price for FGpts. He gets a slight buff in the format due to OBP skillz
$7 Russell Martin, $5 Tommy Murphy? Help…
Depends a bit on your budget. I’d probably keep Martin or both.
Brad – In a FG Points league, the only player I am considering cutting is Yasiel Puig at $29. I think he is a cut, but I am having trouble convincing myself to do so. I have good depth almost everywhere else at below-market rates, but I could use a dependable OFer.
Is Puig clearly a cut at $29? Or am I reasonable to think he might be worth that price?
Don’t hesitate to cut Puig at $29
Seconded. I’m not sure he’s a $14 player let alone $29.
This just saved me from trading for him at way too much money.
Can you rank $1 backup C options (behind Posey) Zunino, Hedges, Murphy?
They’re all good for $1. I wouldn’t count on any of them being available at that price.
I am not sure how you can release Holland and Capps. You are saving $5 by keeping Kipnis (your evaluation). Capps is worth $12 this year (50% of 25 second half value) so you make up the gap right there. However in 2018 and beyond you are getting Capps and Holland for $20 under market value. You will never be there with Kipnis.
In short, gambling. Capps and Holland are extremely volatile as TJS returnees. I’d be betting on the downside and taking the higher floor. As it happens, my team benefits more from high floor players. I might ultimately lose the bet, but I might be more likely to win the war in 2017. Ideally, I’d keep ’em all.
Nice post! Keep Rendon at $24 in FGpts league? I have Villar ($7) I can play at 3rd. Keeping Rendon would allow me to play Villar at MI and bench Schoop ($7). However, $24 seems to be right where his value is, maybe a little over.
Yea, that’s very similar to my Kipnis conundrum.
It is. There are no good 3rd basemen in the pool either. However, I don’t necessarily need one. It’s just hard to put him back knowing he will be signed for more.
$8 Josh Reddick? $10 Doolittle? $7 Vogt?
I really like Doolittle to rebound beyond $10 of value, but you have to weigh your league. It’s likely you can use that money more efficiently. I’d keep Reddick and cut Vogt. Neither of those are firm recommendations if you’re leaning the other way.
you suggested that name-brand drops (J-Hey, Braun Myers) will go for more than they’re worth at auction…I have a $43 Andrew McCutchen who is in the waiver chute…I’m thinking he might go for less at the draft, considering the amount of cash our owners might be carrying on auction day…thoughts?
Cutch should go for less than $43. An easy cut in my opinion. And if he does go for more (I’m seeing wildly varying valuations of him in other formats), then at least someone else got screwed.
well, with Cutch ($43) and Jay Bruce ($20) in the waiver chambers, I’ll have 28 keepers at $333 and $56-$67 at auction…not a lot to spend but hopefully enough to get some pitching depth
I find starting pitching to be the hardest position to draft in FGpts. Relievers and outfielders are the easiest. Catchers draw the most inefficient allocations.
likely true, even in our 4×4 classic league…last season was my first year in the league and I did see several value picks at the end of the draft…owners with a few dollars left and a well-constructed list of back of the rotation targets did pretty well
Admittedly, I have precisely zero experience with 4×4. That’s the experience I usually have with outfielders (Odubel, Napoli, inciarte, Smith, and Rajai all for $1 last year).
playing behind my expensive infield and $31 worth of Catchers is Cruz ($29) and Kemp ($17) and a supporting cast of platoon options…
Dee @ $23 (Ottoneu 5×5)? Seems close, if he looks half decent at the start of the season hes easy trade bait.
When’s your draft. You can get him for way less right now, but I bet he’ll cost more in mid-March.
End of March, i think youre right
How many of the following, if any, should I keep in 5×5?
Clayton Kershaw: $61
Madison Bumgarner: $38
Starling Marte: $34
Adrian Beltre: $22
All if your roster is viable with them.
I’m debating keeping Choo ($16) Gomez ($10) and Pollock ($34) in Fangraphs points.
Oh those are tough. I can see picking one of them as a gamble, but they’re all just slight stretches.
My thoughts too. I do have Cargo at $24 and Cespedes at $22 as well. That torrid stretch Gomez had after joining Tex is blurring my vision lol
I know, that’s a tough little sample to judge.
I would throw Gomez and Pollock back at those prices. Choo is harder for me, but with your solid OF pieces already I would hedge towards cutting all three.
I thought Choo was the easiest to cut 🙂
Guess it’s a matter of faith in his health. Or lack thereof. Put another way, I think all those price tags fall around the player’s 75th to 90th percentiles. That leaves you with more downside than upside. Drafting quality players tends to produce the same scenario though, so it’s up to you if you prefer to take the bird in hand or chase the two in the bush.
I forgot to mention I have Soler at $8 as well. I wanna see what he can do in KC so he’s staying. I’m leaning towards cutting all 3 but wanted a push from fellow fantasy nerds.
Ending up dropping all 3.
on the fence about the following:
aj reed at 6
marwin gonzalez at 4 (love the eligibility)
schoop at 6
tanaka at 20
nicasio at 5
any help would be appreciated. thanks.
imo…no, no, yes, yes, no
Keep Granderson at $11 and Tehran at $17?
Unless your roster is a barren wasteland, move on. There is a point of “I have no assets” where it makes sense to keep them. But it’d have to be a pretty extreme case.
Need some help here, really have no one else to ask. I’m in a normal 5×5 Ott league and have an $11 Buxton and a $31 Seager. My infield is stacked with Odor/Story/Machado/Freeman/Donaldson in addition to Seager. I also have Drury and Healy as backups. My OF is a little suspect with Eaton/Bradley/Santana/Maybin/Buxton so I need some help there. I have literally no cap space for the draft ($16 with 14 spots to fill). So my question is this: Is Buxton a reasonable keeper in this squad at that price? And in addition, would either of these trades make sense? Seager/Buxton for Pollock/Hedges OR Seager/Bedrosian/Drury for Pollock/Thornburg/Hedges? I’ve been tearing my hair out over this one… I really don’t know if I’d rather have a bit of cap space for the draft and upgrade my OF a bit or if sitting tight and $1 bidding the draft is a better bet. HELP!! (PS: My staff is solid-ish with Arrieta/Cueto/Tanaka/Paxton/Taillon)
Forgot to include pricing for trade players – Pollock ($20) and Hedges/Thornburg/Drury/Bedrosian ($3)
Is this Corey or Kyle Seager? They’re both keepable at $31 but it makes a big difference. My opinion is that you should work from your depth to improve the OF. However, I also don’t like trading quality players while in the pressure cooker. I think you can get more for Seager+ than Pollock+ post draft. I’d probably play hard ball tonight, waiting to see if the other owner caves to give a much better valuation. You benefit from those trades, but you’d also be selling for 75 cents on the dollar. (assuming it’s Corey)
If it’s Kyle, either scenario smells reasonable. In both cases, I probably prefer the latter offer. Buxton tends to evoke irrationality. You could benefit from a true breakout or even just a hot week.
My fault, it’s Corey
I figured. You can do better, but maybe not with just 6 hours to work with. You lose leverage since half your league is probably done with tinkering for now.
I think you sold me on the fact that Seager+ is going to be more valuable than Pollock+, in that sense, if I sit tight, I can make up the $10 draft value with a true value trade in season. Thanks Brad!
Thanks for the input, he offered the latter trade after I had explained my discomfort in trading Buxton. I just don’t know how much to believe in the Pollock projections or if an extra $10 in the draft is more important than having a quality depth player to trade with as the season approaches. It’s a great position to be in, but I’m having issues with the decision itself.
The $10 really doesn’t matter. Your ideal usage of it is as a reserve fund for in-season moves. You’ll just have a lot less flexibility otherwise.
The best way to escape that is to trade peanuts for overpriced players like Jay Bruce (last year) then cut them. Since you’re going to have 14 $1 players, that’s actually a lot easier than you’d think – assuming you do your homework and make good end-draft picks.
And seems like you still have a spot for Seager anyway (UTIL). You’re going to need another INF at some point.
Brach at $3? Love the ratios at that price, but no shot at closing…
If it’s FGpts, I give no consideration to closing opps, even though they do affect player value. Take the best guys, let it shake out in the wash.
Here’s my take on Brach. If you have maybe 1 or 2 relievers, then yes, keep him. If you have 4 or 5 (or more), I’d probably try to replicate him with 3 $1 RP. If you have 3, well I’m not entirely sure what I’d do.
Hahaha thanks man, I appreciate the help. I’m at 3 good-to-great RPs, and was kinda thinking along your lines– hoping he can be bench depth and $3 isn’t bad to pay for a nearly 15% swinging strike rate.
FGpts – I’ve got $5 Junior Guerra, $3 Jorge Polanco, and $6 JA Happ. Tell me I’m suffering from endowment bias (traded for all 3) and they’re gone.
Those are all reasonable people for the margins of the roster. I hope you’re not counting on big things.
I’ve got $5 Gsellman, $6 Schimpf, and $2 Tellez. I traded for them this winter too. They’re there to patch holes.
Thanks Brad, I’m gonna take shots on them.
$19 Polanco? Any surplus value there?
Possible, supposedly was playing hurt. I’d keep him unless I was very budget constrained.
Thanks!
As of 5:57, I’m officially logging off! Some other ottoneuers said they’d stop by later to answer more questions.
Thanks for your help!
Since we’re doing fantasy help today, anyone care to give me an opinion on a non ottoneu league? 16 team OBP/SLG/HR/RBI/SB Keep either Carlos Gonzalez (5th round) or Kendrys Morales (16th) for 1 year. Thanks!
Kendrys if he has OF elig. (He does in ottoneu)
Do I keep $37 Strasburg and/or $29 Degrom in 5×5? I wasn’t going to because I think they are too expensive, but it is looking like there won’t be many aces available and my next best pitcher is Tanaka. I’m thinking I could cut them still and gamble on getting them back for cheaper.
you should definitely cut them at that price.
Keep $3 Leon, $12 Grandy in 4×4 ottoneu?
I would cut both and target them in auction
Have a 3B conundrum that the off-season didn’t help me solve. Who should I keep among Rendon ($24), Kang ($6), Suarez ($5), Sandoval ($3) and Jurickson Profar ($5)? I also have Matt Carpenter ($19) and Hernan Perez ($3) that I’m expecting to place at MI or other positions.
I would keep (in order): Carpenter, Kang, Profar, Rendon, Suarez, leaning towards cutting the last two. Would definitely cut Sandoval Andy Perez.
keep $49 miggy? also own $40 votto
Hard to answer without more context but $49 is probably market price (FGPTS) for Miggy