Francisco Lindor’s Surprising Pop
Carlos Correa won the Rookie of the Year vote, and Carlos Correa is guy that most fantasy owners prefer, too. And mostly that’s because we’ll take Correa’s bat over the one Francisco Lindor was supposed to show. When it comes to the bat Lindor actually showed in his debut, though, things get closer. Just a little bit of power separates the two.
And that’s the problem with evaluating Lindor for next season. Power can be so fickle, and we all remember the Kevin Maases of the past. Past research doesn’t even agree on a proper sample for power numbers. We’re left grasping at straws when a young player comes up and is more powerful than they were supposed to be.
Heading into the season, Steamer projected Lindor for a .234/.282/.329 line that was commensurate with much of the scouting: his glove would float him. His minor league batting lines were a mix of impatience and patience, contact and strikeouts, power and powerless, so you can squint and see this greatness if you like. But the career minor league line — .279/.354/.384 with a 14% strikeout rate — doesn’t grab you by the lapel.
We don’t have much minor league data beyond the results, and it looks like MinorLeagueCentral got shut down. But before they shut down, they did have minor league batted ball data, and they had Lindor with a 50.5% ground-ball rate on the farm. He had a 50.8% ground-ball rate last year, so this growth didn’t come with the same swing changes that a hitter like Stephen Piscotty underwent.
That ground ball rate did come in a sample big enough to believe, too. And that’s the weirdest part about his power — 438 plate appearances is a good sample! The first time we looked at what sort of sample you need to evaluate power, 438 was almost enough. Pizza Cutter found that ISO stabilized in 550 plate appearances at least.
But look closer at his findings, as well as Derek Carty’s followup on the subject, and it’s weird that ISO stabilizes at all. Doubles and triples, for example, take more than one season to believe. Home runs, whether by HR/PA or HR/FB, seem to be the driver of ISO’s stabilization, since they stabilize in a half-season or quicker.
So, basically, it’s all about the home runs for Lindor. He’s projected to hit 12 homers in 661 plate appearances next year, and he hit 12 home runs in 438 plate appearances last year. One of the numbers will look “wrong” in retrospect.
Until we have better, bigger data sets for batted balls, though, there’s little we can do.
We can point to Lindor’s home run and fly ball distance as a possible marker, maybe. He was 241st last year, with a 266.9 foot average distance that placed him between Ian Kinsler, Andrelton Simmons, Eduardo Escobar on one end and Carlos Perez and Jason Kipnis on the other. But if you’re ready to count him out because of this grouping, there’s one name I left off the list on purpose: Michael Brantley.
Brantley and Lindor could be dopplegangers by ISO and batted ball distance, except that Lindor goes opposite field a little more and Brantley hits the ball in the air more. And these things are important. Let’s look at other players that have had similar pull/oppo and grounder/fly mixes. I’ll take the guys with plus-plus hard-hit rates out in order to find our best batted ball mix comps for Lindor.
| Name | G | PA | HR | SB | ISO | wRC+ | GB/FB | Pull% | Oppo% | Hard% |
| Francisco Lindor | 99 | 438 | 12 | 12 | 0.169 | 128 | 1.77 | 34.6% | 29.3% | 25.2% |
| Gerardo Parra | 155 | 589 | 14 | 14 | 0.161 | 108 | 1.60 | 37.7% | 27.8% | 28.9% |
| Ian Desmond | 156 | 641 | 19 | 13 | 0.151 | 83 | 1.72 | 34.7% | 29.3% | 28.1% |
| Jason Kipnis | 141 | 641 | 9 | 12 | 0.149 | 126 | 1.60 | 35.3% | 28.6% | 29.9% |
| Odubel Herrera | 147 | 537 | 8 | 16 | 0.121 | 110 | 1.61 | 35.2% | 32.5% | 26.3% |
| Ender Inciarte | 132 | 561 | 6 | 21 | 0.105 | 100 | 2.03 | 34.0% | 33.2% | 26.0% |
| Ryan Goins | 128 | 428 | 5 | 2 | 0.104 | 84 | 1.94 | 34.1% | 29.5% | 24.6% |
| Cameron Maybin | 141 | 555 | 10 | 23 | 0.103 | 94 | 2.89 | 38.1% | 28.5% | 21.4% |
| Yunel Escobar | 139 | 591 | 9 | 2 | 0.101 | 120 | 2.35 | 37.6% | 27.8% | 27.8% |
| Xander Bogaerts | 156 | 654 | 7 | 10 | 0.101 | 109 | 2.05 | 33.8% | 32.1% | 27.2% |
| Cesar Hernandez | 127 | 452 | 1 | 19 | 0.077 | 91 | 2.48 | 32.1% | 30.9% | 23.8% |
| Jose Iglesias | 120 | 454 | 2 | 11 | 0.070 | 97 | 2.41 | 34.6% | 29.0% | 16.1% |
| Michael Bourn | 141 | 482 | 0 | 17 | 0.045 | 68 | 1.69 | 33.4% | 27.1% | 21.3% |
Look at that. Lindor had the best power outcomes of his batted ball mix comp group. He had 50% more power than the group average even though he matched the group exactly in pull% (35%), oppo% (29%), and hard% (25%), and only hit a few more fly balls than the group average (1.8 GB/FB vs 2.0). That’s not a great sign.
Given the way that Francisco Lindor pushes the ball on the ground, without having a plus hard-hit rate, we can expect his power to regress next year. Given his minor league work and batted ball distances, we could expect the same. In this case, the numbers line up with the scouting. Don’t get too excited about Lindor’s early power output.
With a phone full of pictures of pitchers' fingers, strange beers, and his two toddler sons, Eno Sarris can be found at the ballpark or a brewery most days. Read him here, writing about the A's or Giants at The Athletic, or about beer at October. Follow him on Twitter @enosarris if you can handle the sandwiches and inanity.
I’ve been working on a player comp algorithm recently and I’m happy to see some similar names (Parra, Inciarte)! Just based on contact, I get 2011 Parra, 2007 Melky, 2014 Inciarte, and 2014 Jose Ramirez as the closest comps – weighted ISO for his comp group in the next season was around 120.
Is there a chance that his minor league #’s understate his actual skill? In other words, knowing he was a surefire MLB player, his coaches had him work on his swing and approach in ways that ramped up his skill level but weren’t reflected in his #’s. While most minor leaguers are trying their dangdest to put up the best possible #’s so they can make the show, Lindor never had to worry about such a thing.
Yeah, we’re looking at a young emerging talent who’s still learning, adjusting, and growing into his body. Players who are still developing don’t necessarily have their skills “stabilize” after a certain number of ABs. Having watched him all year, I know a few of those 12 HRs barely cleared the fence so I do expect some regression there. But the kid can hit better than a lot of people thought. Its silly how many fantasy writers are saying he’s already peaked at 22.
I don’t think he’s peaked. I just don’t think he’ll show the same home run power next year.
Fair enough. And you’re probably right on that. I was remembering this quote from your 10/29 chat: “I feel like Lindor debuted closer to his peak [than Correa] when it comes to the bat.” Which I realize is not saying he’s actually peaked yet now that I read it again.
But I keep hearing fantasy writers claim we’ve already seen his ceiling. August said so in one of his recent chats. Very few seem willing to admit his offensive ceiling may be a lot higher than they thought when he was in the minors.
Totally possible, which is why I didn’t focus on those numbers really.
This is absolutely the case – it is not a question. He was always very young for his level, he is not physically mature at all and he battled injuries. Anyone who claims to know how he will turn out is an idiot.
Steamer seems to like him, are you taking the under on that?
A .122 ISO seems totally do-able. Interested to see if he steals 19/20, but otherwise, Steamer’s fine.
Steamer’s projected BABIP seems low given the above listed batted ball comps; only Goins, Maybin, and Yunel don’t have career BABIPs over .320, and Lindor is fast enough to turn some groundouts into singles
Seems like all of the guys in the table — ahem, Kipnis/Bogaerts — should also be avoided or downgraded.
Lindor, Brantley, kipnis.. all legit. . Look at guys like jd Martinez, even kipnis..when everyone wanted chord Phelps over him. Who’s chord phelps? When brantley went ham..I saw his potential was waiting for it. People thought he hit his ceiling ..finished 3rd in mvp. Both brantley and kip weren’t highly regarded coming up. Kip has changed his game I’d like to see him lose a lil weight steal more bases.. I don’t mind his power dropping to raise his avg. That said all metrics aside.. do I think Lindor can repeat what he did last year? Odds are no. But if he does will I be surprised..no..like one person said he is still developing. .he is 22..flew thru the minors. That glove tho. #tribetown