Finding Value At Third Base
The faces at third base have lost a rather big one, literally and figuratively, in a guy named Miggy. Miguel Cabrera was the consensus #1 or #2 overall pick in 2014 no doubt because of his awesomeness but also because his third base eligibility made him, well, awesomer as Marshawn Lynch might say. Out is Miggy, but in is Carlos Santana and…Chris Davis? Who knew. Regardless, even in the wackiest of formats, you’re likely going to need yourself a third baseman, and since everyone loves a bargain, I’m going to toss a few names out there for you to target.
You could draft Adrian Beltre or Evan Longoria or Josh Donaldson. But it’s going to cost you, and relative to their overall contributions, you might be better using that second or third rounder on other needs. Heck, even wunderkind Anthony Rendon is leaving the board early in the 5th round in mock drafts — but he’s likely going to have more value as a second baseman. This isn’t to say if these guys slip you shouldn’t gobble them up — but there are some contributors much further down the list which might prove to be a relative steal.
I hate to do the old Player A versus Player B, but now I’m going to present Player A versus Player B. Stay with me. Steamer projections for two players who have no relation to my knowledge:
| HR | R | RBI | SB | AVG | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Player A | 30 | 71 | 79 | 3 | 0.242 |
| Player B | 26 | 65 | 75 | 6 | 0.242 |
Player A is getting drafted right around 5th overall on Mock Draft Central, which seems like absolute madness (and I doubt that lasts) and Player B is getting drafted around the 11th round. The former is Chris Davis, the latter is Pedro Alvarez. Now, granted, Alvarez has some warts but, ahem, so does Chris Davis (and the A in Player A doesn’t stand for Adderall, for all of you wondering). Yeah, Chris Davis once hit 53 home runs but Brady Anderson once hit 50 and I don’t know what point I’m trying to make, I’m just still in shock that Brady Anderson hit 50 home runs 20 years ago. I digress.
To the larger point, Pedro Alvarez seems like a nifty little pick if he slips this far in your draft. If you’re willing to give up something in batting average, he’s highly likely to be among the top 3 in home runs at his position and is no slouch in runs and RBI. He’ll also likely qualify at first base within the first month or so, which could come in handy.
So I won’t torture you again with Player A and Player B comparisons, so instead I’ll just give you “Bob” and “Jim”:
| HR | R | RBI | SB | AVG | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bob | 16 | 66 | 65 | 9 | 0.275 |
| Jim | 20 | 73 | 82 | 3 | 0.282 |
Bob moonlights as a guy named David Wright and he’s falling off the board around the fourth round and Jim is an alias for Nolan Arenado who is being selected right around the 13th round. You be the judge on that one, because it couldn’t be much easier.
A few other players that I’ll be keeping an eye on at third base include Pablo Sandoval, Aramis Ramirez, and Manny Machado. Sandoval is going around Arenado territory while the latter two are getting drafted in the late teen rounds. All three of them should contribute nicely in home runs, runs, and RBI while Sandoval will likely hit for a plus average. And while they might not hit the 24 home runs that Adrian Beltre is projected for, nor the 26 home runs that Josh Donaldson is projected for — would it surprise you if all three hit 20 a piece?
Of course, this is not a wedding ceremony to ADP. You can like ADP, but more as a good looking cousin, not a partner.
ADP is going to change over time and even when it’s fairly locked in, you can’t rely on the fact that your opponent isn’t going to zig when you decide to zag. However, even this early, it tends to illustrate under valued players which is likely to hold over in some incarnation when we’re at when it counts on draft day. And for my money, I’m probably going in other directions rounds 1-10 and looking to pull some value at the hot corner shortly thereafter.
Michael was born in Massachusetts and grew up in the Seattle area but had nothing to do with the Heathcliff Slocumb trade although Boston fans are welcome to thank him. You can find him on twitter at @michaelcbarr.
Any thoughts on Ryan Zimmerman as a late round flyer, if he retains 3b eligibility?
ewwww
If he’s healthy he could be one of the top fantasy 3B. Not sure why that’s so ‘ewwwwww’
Move to 1b may go a long way for his health.
Chris Davis 5th overall? I think you may have looked at 2014 mock draft results.
It’s a BAL-only league.
Manfred abolished shifts. #SetCrushDavisFree
It is interesting that Mock Draft Central has David Wright going in the 4th round while at FantasyPros where he is being selected 88th overall.
And there are two articles on Wright today using the different sources!
MDC is not setup as of a couple weeks ago. All ADP and rankings are from 2014. The free NFBC ADP where guys pay a substantial amount of money should really be the governing aid across the industry.
I’m using couchmanagers.com (CM) now amd it’s proven to be much more valuable than MDC. RTS sports is another good site, but CM allow for in-draft player movement on your roster and a color coded draft grid w/o using another tab.
pretty sure Rendon is going in the 2nd round, not 5th
yeah rendon isnt going in the 5th at all. more like second.
The last mock I took part in had Rendon going at 13th in a 14-teamer
Rendon’s NFBC ADP is 12. So um, yeah…not 5th round.
Miggy will have 3rd base eligibility in Yahoo. He started 8 games at 3rd and playe 10 games in 2014
Same in CBS, FWIW.
that is why yahoo is a joke.
Everyone’s playing by the same rules…
This was discussed in the comments section of another recent RotoGraphs piece, but I think it bears repeating: the current ADP data from Mock Draft Central is nonsensical and should probably be ignored entirely. They have not updated their rankings since last year, so players are being auto-drafted where they were ranked in the 2014 preseason. As of right now, I’d prefer looking at Couch Managers, where the third basemen mentioned above have the following ADPs:
Anthony Rendon: 12
Nolan Arenado: 52
David Wright: 73
Pablo Sandoval: 75
Manny Machado: 87
Chris Davis: 88
Aramis Ramirez: 153
Pedro Alvarez: 230
Yes. C’mon rotographs, get it together!
This is exactly what I was thinking. With all of the hype that Arenado is getting as an up and comer and the boring nature of a guy like Wright whose value has peaked, I expect Arenado to go way ahead of Wright as we get to March/April
Im in a 20 team keeper league so i could use some advice for a shallow league. Or is it deep i always get that confused out of context.
Deep
beltre has to get old sooner or later and he is already like 35. why is the dude rated number one by people at 3b
not many other options…. 35 is old, but he is holding up pretty well. The other top options, Arenado (short track record), Seager(viewed as last season being about his best even if he will consistently be around there), Machado (young and coming off injury), Longoria (when was his last elite season), they all have warts- age is the one we choose to accept
Beltre keeps hitting. He’s able to do this for the opposite reason Peddy has fallen so quickly. It’s why JUp, AGone, etc…will have longer careers. PAblo looks like a possible value, but to ignore his slot in the lineup as probably 6 or 7 while Beltre is 3 is silly.
The new rave is to ignore “contextual stats”, but it’s a mistake I see every year. Pollock and Eaton are leading off for their respective clubs and have plenty of bat behind them, so there ADP is puzzling to me while SP are just so cool to own. I get thier inj history, but both could go .270-10-35-90-65 and earn $15 just as Martin showed a year ago.
With so many different league types, citing rounds does nothing without context of # of teams. 1. When the time comes, I plead use ADP instead of rounds 2. Quoting ADP time is not here – maybe in two weeks.
true, but when people quote rounds, they mean in a 10 or 12 team league.
I always assume 12 team 5×5 roto unless stated otherwise.
Wait, what about Kyle Seager?
Came here to say this. Average Auction Price: $11 vs $13 for Alvarez.
4.3 zWAR projected for Seager in 2015
1.8 Steamer WAR projected for Alvarez in 2015
Seager is slightly younger, gets more PA and has progressed every single year, Alvarez had a “down” season in 2014.
If Alvarez is good value, then Seager is the absolute killer.
Seager is getting drafted way before Pedro, at least 100 spots.
Doubt Arenado will last till the 13th either
I made a promise to me from six months ago that I would never put me through the pain of a Pedro Alvarez 3B season ever again.
I’d never be able to look myself in the eye again.
Michael Barr – I think you are way off in you ADPs of these players. For example David Wright is going consistently in the 6th-8th round in 30+ of NFBC drafts so far (15 teams). While Arenado is going in the 3rd-5th round.
i see wright going further than the 6th-8th consistently, I see him go in the 10th most of the time
I’m probably going to own David Wright in every league I’m in this season looking at where he’s being drafted. I’m taking the over on the FANS current projection…
Also like Aramis Ramirez, Pablo Sandoval, and Carlos Santana
from what I have seen:
Wright in the 9th-12th
sandoval in a similar round as wright,
Santana in the 5th to 7th
Aramis going pretty late
Lay off the booze Lahey
Yeah Lahey, you drunk bastard. Oh yeah and wtf is a shithawk?
This writer really screwed this up big time. ADPs are blatantly wrong
Obviously not enough research was done before writing this article…those ADP’s are based on pre-draft rankings and “bot” picks.
It’s pretty easy to find where these guys are projected to go…look at some mock drafts in Rotoworld’s forum or elsewhere with fairly serious drafters.
That’s embarrassing, but a good idea for a post.
I’m curious why so many Couch Managers drafters are so high on Nolan Arenado.
Okay, I get it: Coors Field. High contact guy.
Nonetheless all but two of his 18 HRs were hit at Coors. He hit a lot of ground balls and pop ups last year.
If you’re going after him for the Batting Average, with modest production in the HR department, I guess that’s understandable.
But come playoff time, if you’re looking for him to contribute HRs and the Rockies have just embarked on a long road trip, it looks like you’ll be SOL.
Well, using my league’s scoring he finished 12th among 3B last year after missing significant time, and he is projected by bot CBS and Steamer to finish 2nd this year.
Not that your observations aren’t correct, but this is a very weak position.
Also come playoff time, if you’re looking for him to contribute and the Rockies just started a long home stand, you’ll be watching the points fly.
Seriously, though, what’s the point of your last paragraph/sentence?
No love for kris Bryant? The Cubs are calling him up after what should be exactly 9 games to ensure an extra year of team control. His minor league numbers last year drew Stanton comps and he has few warts less the somewhat high K rate. He’s been a forgotten man in most mocks going in the late 100’s. His steamer looks a lot like Pedro Alvarez but he has way more upside and a similar bottom. If you’re going to reach for a prospect/rookie type he seems like the one, and most people aren’t so far.
This the worst article I’ve read. You get paid to post this??
A rewrite would seem to be in order with accurate draft positions.
Yeah, thanks for your efforts to help us out but the adp’s which are the basis for this entire article are completely off, so you may want to take this one down and go for it again with different players once you get more accurate adp’s good luck!
Hey all — my apologies for completely botching the ADP’s. Let’s just say Mock Draft Central is dead to me. I’ll be throwing up a sparkling new post on the same topic tomorrow. Feel free to call me names though, I deserve it. Carry on…
Thanks for coming back to face the music. 🙂
This year, 3B seems like one of those positions that I will dislike after every draft. I’ll either be reaching for one of the couple quality guys, or rolling the dice from among a bunch players with a very large range of perceived outcomes. At least, my perception is that the range of outcomes is fairly wide for this set of players.
Takes guts to admit mistakes. Well done Michael. Looking forward to your article tomorrow.
But just to mess with you a little bit, Chris Davis at 5th OVERALL?!?!? Come on man! That had to at least make you think something was off.
I’m even more shocked that Brady Anderson is the Orioles VP of Operations….
Remember in highschool when your history teacher assigned an essay on WWII and you decided to actually do the paper? And spent hours and hours on it?
And then when you turned it in you got a big fat F because you actually wrote about WWI instead?
Ya, that sucks.