Dealing With Fringe Keepers
Over the weekend, I had my first normal(ish) keeper deadline. The roster was packed with useful players who could be kept right around cost. It made for quite the challenge deciding on cuts and auction strategy.
Here’s the background – 12-team 5×5 roto (OPS), standard deep rosters (2 C, 5 OF, MI, CI), $310 auction budget, unlimited keepers at previous auction price +$7. And here are my various keep/cuts.
| Kept Players | Cost | Cut Players | Cost |
| Anthony Rendón (Was – 2B,3B) | 20 | Yasmani Grandal (LAD – C) | 15 |
| Eugenio Suárez (Cin – SS) | 8 | Peter O’Brien (Ari – OF) | 8 |
| Grégory Polanco (Pit – OF) | 17 | Víctor Martínez (Det – 1B) | 16 |
| Gerardo Parra (Col – OF) | 8 | DJ LeMahieu (Col – 2B) | 8 |
| Yasiel Puig (LAD – OF) | 22 | Justin Turner (LAD – 1B,3B) DTD | 8 |
| Giancarlo Stanton (Mia – OF) | 43 | Álex Rodríguez (NYY – Util) | 10 |
| Ken Giles (Hou – RP) | 15 | Adam Eaton (CWS – OF) DTD | 12 |
| Jeurys Familia (NYM – RP) | 9 | Jayson Werth (Was – OF) | 19 |
| Luis Severino (NYY – SP) | 8 | Darnell Sweeney (Phi – 2B,OF) | 8 |
| Carter Capps (Mia – RP) | 8 | Nick Castellanos (Det – 3B) | 10 |
| Steven Matz (NYM – SP) | 8 | Jorge Soler (ChC – OF) | 8 |
| Marcus Stroman (Tor – SP) | 8 | Carlos Gómez (Hou – OF) | 29 |
| Eduardo Rodríguez (Bos – SP) DTD | 8 | Joe Panik (SF – 2B) | 8 |
| Trevor Story (Col – SS) | 1 | Aroldis Chapman (NYY – RP) | 31 |
| Henry Owens (Bos – SP) | 8 | ||
| Darren O’Day (Bal – RP) | 8 | ||
| Nick Hundley (Col – C) | 8 | ||
| César Hernández (Phi – 2B,3B,SS) | 8 | ||
| Devon Travis (Tor – 2B) DTD | 8 |
Chances are, you see some strange decisions. Chances are, you’re looking at different players than the next guy. So let’s crack open my brain space and walk through a few of these. Hopefully this will help you to reach your own tricksy keep-cut decisions. Or maybe you’ll decide I’m a loon*.
*A loon is a type of goofy bird and also sounds like lunatic which is actually derived from moon madness; not the goofy bird. /end lesson
The first detail to understand is our particular draft patterns. With the obvious exception of a few lesser-lights (i.e. Darnell Sweeney), very few of these players would reliably cost less in the draft. I certainly couldn’t count on Giancarlo Stanton going for under $43. My own valuations using different methodologies and weights range from from $37 to $69.
Aside from a $1 Trevor Story, all of my position player keepers are…questionable. Anthony Rendon runs $11 to $21 by my math. I could have received better value from DJ LeMahieu, Joe Panik, and/or Devon Travis – all of whom were $8 and all of whom I cut. Those players ranged from $2 to $15 projections. If I kept all three for $24, there’s a decent chance one of them would outperform Rendon.
I opted to overpay for the guy whose median projection matched the ceiling of the others. I usually do well populating the back end of my roster. When one of my teams flops, as this one did last year, it’s usually because the top talent fails hard.
At another position than second base, I might still have taken a different tact. I feel very confident about the second base depth around the league. Somebody I like, even if it’s just Brandon Phillips, will fall to me for less than $8. Meanwhile, freeing up more roster space and cash will aid my effort to draft talent better suited to my roster.
I’m a Eugenio Suarez believer. He’ll be boldly projected soon. He’s actually on every single one of my keeper rosters, leaving my fate inextricably linked to his. I’m confident he’ll earn his keep, even if he turns out to be a $6 instead of the full $8.
Outfielders. I kept four for five spots plus a UTIL. I could have hung onto Adam Eaton and Jorge Soler too. I was all set to keep Soler until Dexter Fowler shoved him into a part time role. Soler and Parra barely projected for $3, but I liked their breakout potential (Soler) and circumstances (Parra) enough to bump them to keeper status.
I’ve already received some flak for hanging onto Parra. I’m looking at this batting order – Charlie Blackmon, Parra, Carlos Gonzalez, Nolan Arenado. Only one player, LeMahieu, could bump Parra from the two-hole. However, Parra has more dynamic skills at the plate including enough power to be an interesting Coors Field hitter. LeMahieu just slaps everything to the opposite field. If he’s batting second, Parra is an average producer in all five categories.
I’m not exactly bullish about Gregory Polanco. Projection systems think he’ll improve this year – a rare thing to see from Steamer and ZiPS. I don’t know. What I do know is my own personal weakness for ignoring stolen bases on draft day. Especially in OPS leagues, anybody who can swipe 25 bases with a .700 or better OPS will cost way too much in the auction. I still need another stolen base threat, but at least I don’t have to make multiple painful investments.
Yasiel Puig is an interesting character. If I had to pick one player who might be this season’s Bryce Harper, it’s probably Puig. That doesn’t mean I really expect that to happen, it’s just a recognition of ridiculous upside. Puig’s median projection was in line with some $32 players, but he comes with massive risk. Was I willing to take risk over a steadier player for $10 more? Yep, sure looks like it.
Two players I really wanted to keep, Justin Turner and Travis, will be starting the season on the disabled list. I decided $16 could help to secure a top player who won’t start on the shelf. Both Turner and Travis will return to position battles too. It helped that I didn’t expect either player to be worth $15 next offseason. The potential for 2017 value helped to decide me on Rendon, Polanco, Puig, and Eduardo Rodriguez.
Besides overpaying a couple dollars on a possible ERod breakout, I think my pitcher decisions were both obvious and straightforward. You might wonder about Ken Giles for $15, but that’s actually a good $4 under market rate in our league.
Parting Thoughts
- Recognize your own strengths and weaknesses. Be more willing to stretch for players who fill your particular weaknesses.
- Don’t be afraid to look past the projections (i.e. Parra, Suarez).
- Consider opportunity cost. Does keeping three decent players prevent you from landing a much better guy?
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Thoughts on your particular decisions aside, I find it odd you have such huge ranges for your projected values. I don’t see how you can even draft saying “this guy is either a solid $15 player or useless”… I mean we know fluctuations are bound to occur and players have floors and ceilings, but don’t you have to kind of have one number (or small range) in mind heading into the year?
That’s how most people approach it. I’ve come to believe that firm values are only misleading, but you don’t see me recommending that others prep this way. By virtue of only doing fantasy baseball as my job, I can assimilate and use more information than most fantasy players. So what I do isn’t necessarily what you should do.
IMO using hard values for auction prices is essentially the 80 part of the 80/20 rule. I
Turner isn’t going to open the season on the DL and he is clearly the starting 3B when healthy
Where are you hearing that? Because I’m hearing he’s either on the DL or very part time for the first month+. And with their other options, it’s not even remotely clear he’s a full time guy once back to full health.
He’s a class above those other options offensively and one of their best hitters. If he’s healthy he is going to play regularly. It says right on his player page he will be held out a week or so to start spring training. I’m not sure how that translates to starting on the DL, but I’ll concede it’s reasonable to assume he won’t play every day early on.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/la-sp-sn-dodgers-justin-turnercactus-league-20160229-story.html
“Though he is still expected to be ready for opening day, Dodgers third baseman Justin Turner will not play during at least the first week of Cactus League games as he recovers from microfracture surgery on his left knee, Manager Dave Roberts said Monday.”
I don’t understand when the recovery from microfracture surgery suddenly halved. I’ll believe it when I see it. This sounds like when news reports have TJS guys returning in 13 months instead of 15-16.
Thanks for your thoughts, your last point is something I’m dealing with ($260 budget, deep starting roster CI/MI, 5 OF, 3 Bench spots): I’m planning to keep K. Davis ($5), Bautista ($37), L. Cain ($6), Souza ($5), and Grichuk ($5) for my OF. I really like the upside that Davis/Souza/Grichuk offer, but my concern is that I’m keeping 1-2 too many fringe players there and it’ll inhibit me from getting another solid OF.
In this case, I think you’re getting good enough value. Could you draft a better OF by cutting one or two of them? Sure. But you’re probably better off just sitting out the OF bargains.
If you have a limited # of keepers and find some of them fairly uninspiring and generally close to their likely auction value (deep $260 NL Only league), would you recommend going with the higher priced options to lock in some talent (e.g. $28 Rizzo, $18 Rendon), or the cheap options and bringing more buying power into the draft (e.g. $4 Hundley, $4 Solarte)?
I definitely prefer to keep good players. In an NL Only those are probably all keepers though.
So does Story cost $1 or $8 ($7+$1)? I’m guessing he was a waiver wire pick up and is $1 but I wasn’t sure if that was the case. Nevertheless, I can see why you’d select him at the lower price but what is the realistic range of outcomes for him in 2016?
We’re allowed to keep one rookie eligible player at $1 so long as they weren’t on the active roster before September (so Buxton isn’t eligible). Story was my $1 guy. We also have an NA slot for that purpose.
We used to have 5 man minor league rosters, but it turned out that 2 of us were way better at using them than everyone else, so I did away with them.
IMHO, paying big $$ for injury-prone guys is a boom or bust strategy, so I’m only willing to target at most 1 injury-prone, big $$ guy. To me, you’ve got 3 guys that fit that bill – Stanton, Puig & Rendon – which could lead to a down year. I define a full season as 140+ games. Those 3 guys have 12 professional seasons combined, but only 4 “full” seasons. Related-injuries, bad-luck injuries, it doesn’t matter. The guy has to be on the field to contribute. So I want guys that can stay healthy while I roll the dice on one or 2 guys.
If that were my team, I’d keep Puig & Stanton. By dropping Rendon, you could add Turner & Panik. True, neither of them have posted a “full” season, but you’re getting 2 for 1 at a lower price.
Just my $0.02.
I agree regarding the boom/bust side. However, one of the owners is keeping $8 Correa, Bryant, and Schwarber. I think I need quite a bit of boom to beat him. I can get Paniks and Turners for free during the season. In fact, both of them were waiver pick ups last year.
With you on Puig. 12 team mixed only keep 3. 2 draft round inflation cant keep anyone who would be at 2nd or first round.
Right now i have 3 rd and last year to keep Rizzo, 9th round Trout and 15th round Springer. The guys not making the cut now are a 19th round schwarber or lindor and a 17 th round puig. Puig and schwarber could be big regrets especially if springer gets on the dl again. But puig seems like to much risk and lindor and schwarber are not sure things.
Yea, all defensible decisions. You could try to gamble on Schwarber/Lindor/Puig providing more value than Rizzo, but that’s always a risky gambit. Considering that you only keep 3, it’s safer to play it straight.
I have a few hard decisions this year. Background: 10-team NL-only keeper league, 4×4 (no runs, Ks), max 15 keepers, $26 salary cap.
Aaron Altherr, $1 (or $10 in a standard $260 league)
Ben Paulsen, $1
Jamie Garcia, $1
My no-brainer keepers are:
Ramos .70, O. Herrera .10, Bryant $1, Enciarte .60, Pederson $1
Cole $2, Fernandez $2, Harvey $1.90, B. Anderson .20, Jansen 1.90, Ramos 1.00, Vizcaino $1
A lot committed to pitching, but I love who I’m keeping. Thoughts?
I wouldn’t keep Paulsen. Without knowing the opportunity cost, I would guess that Altherr and Garcia can return $10 of value to you. I happen to like Altherr a lot, and I’m mostly alone in that. It may be that you should be able to redraft him for .70.
Turner is neither in a position battle nor starting the season on the DL.
With that said, I do think he’s a 130-140 game player this year, so not quite “full time.”
Hey Brad, would love if you (or anyone) could help me out. I play in a 15 team auction weekly format league where you must keep 10 players. We play with a MI and CI starting spot in addition to regular spots. Our budget is $300. Please rank the following keepers as i’m trying to decide what to do with my last one or two spots.
Ketel Marte $6, Shin Soo Choo $13, Scott Kazmir $12, Brandon Phillips $10, Roberto Osuna $11.
Thanks!
I like Marte most and Choo is good if it’s an OBP league. If not, then just stick to Marte.
I should have mentioned that it is in fact an OBP league. Thanks!
Interesting article, I have similar issues. Keep better player at cost or lesser players at tiny bit of value. Can you talk more about your thoughts on not keeping Eaton. Was he just roster crunched bc you didn’t want to keep 5 OF? Concerns on shoulder? I also have him at $12, though with OBP added.
Ours is an OPS league. I have Eaton projected in the $3-$7 range. I think Parra will outperform him.
I did agonize over the decision, at one point saying I would keep him or Polanco.
Sorry about Carter Capps, hopefully it’s not a big deal.
I’m a little more peeved about it in a league where I just traded for him.
Guess I’ll ask on mine too.. Keeping for sure Encarnacion-26, 3B Sano-5, Betts-12, Corey Seager-5, Carrasco- 21
12 team, 6X6 including OBP and QS. 3 OF, no CI or MI. 7 SP, 3 RP, 1 hitter BN.
6 guys kept and only handful of elite players available, top hitters go 45-65, pitchers 40-50, Kershaw has never been available
Last spot
Kershaw- 56
Price-46
Strasburg-36
Rendon-12
Eaton-12
Kersha
I’d probably do Kershaw or Rendon depending on how you feel about your budget with Kershaw. If, in cutting Kershaw, you would use that money on another elite player, just keep him. If instead you’d spread it around to several position, then go for Rendon.
We are simpatico in thought process. Thanks for response
Thoughts on keeping Andrew Miller at $5 with Chapman news?
That’s a decent value for Miller even without 30 days of closing.
Eaton at $12 is an easy keep, unless you think his shoulder is really that bad? Travis also has a lot of upside. Goins is Goins, he’s not going to stop Travis from 2b and that lineup is going to be huge…again.