Are We Repeating a 2018 Mistake?

How different are these two pitchers?

  • Pitcher A: 3.67 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, 24% K, 7% BB, 3.18 FIP
  • Pitcher B: 3.77 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, 28% K, 7% BB, 3.41 FIP

I’d probably lean toward B as I’m a strikeout slut, but the idea that they’re markedly different wouldn’t really hold up. Even if you look at their pitches, I’m not sure there’s a clear difference:

  • Pitcher A: -4.2 FB, 10.0 SL, 1.4 CB, -1.3 CH
  • Pitcher B: -4.8 FB, 11.2 SL, 4.8 CB, -3.2 CH

Pitcher B has a stronger second-best pitch with that curve, but Pitcher A’s fastball and changeup were both better while the pair shared similarly strong sliders. After his campaign, Pitcher A was taken as a top 40 SP in most drafts. Currently, Pitcher B is going among the top 25 SPs, which means yes, it’s two different seasons for these stat lines. Both also happen to pitch in the most hitter-friendly environment the game has ever seen.

By now you’ve likely guessed that both are Colorado Rockies.

I’m wondering if we might be making the same mistake we did last year by pumping Marquez up the SP rankings. His season was better than Gray’s – I didn’t mention that Gray threw 110 IP in his season and Marquez threw 196 because I thought it might give away their identities too easily – but he’s also going much higher with about a 90 overall pick difference between the pair. So when I ask if we’re making the same mistake, I’m focused primarily in regards to a pair of inflated Colorado pitchers. If anything, the Marquez move could be a bigger mistake given how much higher he’s going.

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed.
We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member.
1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other.
2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off.
3. Dark mode and Classic mode!
4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them.
5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects.
6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.)
7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only.
8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO.
9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members.
10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features!
We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it.

My concern is that we’re once again heavily investing in a talented-but-raw arm with a limited track record, one great pitch, and a brutal home environment that is tough to tame for 15 starts a year. Or rather, avoid the 3-5 mega blow ups that can erase the 10-12 quality starts you throw there and also undercut strong road work.

Where Gray and Marquez differ is that Marquez wasn’t even good at home last year with a 4.74 ERA/1.47 WHIP combo in 89.3 IP compared to Gray posting a 3.13 ERA/1.22 WHIP there in his 2017 breakout. I think what made those of us who invested in Gray so confident was that he could give a little back at home and make it up on the road as he certainly seemed better than the 4.06 ERA/1.35 WHIP he posted away from Coors would suggest.

Narrator: He didn’t.

Gray did give back all of the home upside (4.91/1.38) while further cratering on the road (5.34/1.32). His season was so weird, though, and probably deserves its own deep-dive another time. Perhaps the most interesting aspect of Marquez’s breakout is that he was really just a half season represented quite well by this picture below:

More to the point, he had a 5.53 ERA through 16 starts. That’s well past the point of reasonable patience and I understand anyone who decided to move on from Marquez, especially in mixed leagues. Over his final 17 starts, he posted a sparkling 2.47 ERA/0.95 WHIP combo with 146 punchouts in 113 innings of work. He no doubt carried some teams to the title as a staff leader, particularly because he could’ve easily been paired with more established aces since he was a late-round pick or waiver wire fodder. (Imagine if someone added Marquez and Trevor Williams to their NL-only team with Jacob deGrom in the second half!)

The emergence of a slider he dabbled with in 2017 fueled Marquez’s surge. It finally gave him a second offering to work off his elite curveball. In fact, his curveball/slider combo was the best in baseball during his second half* run. Out of the 52 pitchers who threw at least 400 CB+SL, Marquez’s .337 OPS allowed was the best in baseball as were both his .120 AVG and 55% K rate, and only 2nd to Carlos Rodon (.184) in SLG at .197 and to Clayton Kershaw (258) in PA ending on those pitches with 214.

*we’re starting his run on June 30th, so it’s not a true 2H cutoff

A dirty little secret about Marquez’s run was that his fastball was still well below average. It allowed an .829 OPS, 79th of the 107 pitchers from who threw at least 600 heaters from June 30th on. Part of his success was a favorable schedule that put him in Coors just seven times and while he no doubt dominated there with a composite .591 OPS, it was in spite of his fastball, which allowed a .929 OPS (meaning it was at least decent on the road to shave 100 points off that .829 mark). This is where the bulk of my concern comes from with Marquez.

Can he survive 15 or so starts at home with a bunk fastball? Or like I mentioned earlier, can he avoid the 3-5 shellackings there that could sink the other 10-12? That’s to say nothing of his road work, though. He had to put up a fantastic 2.95 road ERA just to get to his composite 3.77 mark. That doesn’t mean you have to be perfect for all 15-17 starts, he had a pair of 5+ ER duds on the road, but 13 of the remaining 14 saw him allow two or fewer.

I’m just not comfortable with this tiny margin of error for a top 25 starter, no matter how alluring his strikeout capability is when he’s rolling. Gray represents a worst case scenario of what could happen (5.12 ERA/1.35 WHIP and a Triple-A demotion), but I have a hard time projecting anything better than a high-3.00s/low-4.00s ERA and low-to-mid 1.20s WHIP for 24-year old righty. If he gives back anything on that 28% K rate, that further tamps down his ceiling.

At that point, why not just take Charlie Morton 45+ picks later? Or gamble on similar big strikeout arms with some ratio questions like Zack Wheeler (101 ADP), Carlos Martinez (121), Luis Castillo (110), Masahiro Tanaka (139), or Nick Pivetta (153) among others? Hell if I’m gambling on a Rockie, I might just prefer running it back with Gray at a major discount (~200 ADP).

Obviously, it’s not a Marquez or Gray proposition with such a split in their draft spots, but I’ll be bypassing Marquez at his cost in favor of similar profiles who don’t have to pitch in Coors. Marquez is electric when he’s on and at his age, he could still develop further, but Coors amps the degree of difficulty up several levels.





Paul is the Editor of Rotographs and Content Director for OOTP Perfect Team. Follow Paul on Twitter @sporer and on Twitch at sporer.

36 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
digiderek
7 years ago

And I thought this would be about Cole Hamels.

CC AFCMember since 2016
7 years ago

Co-sign this. Also out on Kyle Freeland. I’m old enough to remember being fooled by Ubaldo Jimenez. Nobody stays good at Coors with any consistency

stuck in a slump
7 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

Ubaldo was such a massive disappointment for several reasons. I thought for sure that after his 2009 he would be a Cy Young contender, and lo and behold his 2010! I knew that something special was going to happen that year when in his first start he threw a pitch to Prince Fielder in MIL that started over the plate and was caught behind Fielder’s head for a swinging strike! (Fielder a few months later would say that Ubaldo had the nastiest stuff he’s ever seen!) But, when the voting came out, Ubaldo finished 3rd in the Cy Young voting and I was pissed! People (including the voters) heavily discount Rockies’ hitters, but didn’t give Ubaldo any bump for playing half his games in Coors.

Then he fell off the table after being traded, and it seemed understandable, he didn’t want to go and didn’t want to be in Cleveland. Plus, all the fall out between him and Tulo that happened after the trade was just brutal to watch as a personal fan of both, and as a fan of the Rockies and Indians. When his 2013 season came and it seemed like maybe he could be back, until the horrible Orioles pitching staff got a hold of him and effectively ended his career.

But man, what a run from 2009-2013! Ubaldo ranked 17th in pitching WAR with 18.0 during that period (0.2 WAR behind Shields and beating Matt Cain), with a 3.88/3.68/3.87 triple slash, 25th in K/9, 25th in HR/9 (despite playing 2.5 years in CO!), and 30th in HR/FB.

Man, when Ubaldo was good, he was crazy good, and if he had played for a bigger name team he would have gotten a lot more love.

rayguMember since 2024
7 years ago

I’d like to see how Marquez’s 2018 2nd half compares to Corbin’s 2017 2nd half.

AnonMember since 2025
7 years ago

Rule #1 of fantasy baseball – do not draft Rockies pitchers. In the entire 26 year history of the franchise, they have had 18 qualified seasons (by 13 pitchers) with an ERA under 4.00.

docgooden85Member since 2018
7 years ago
Reply to  Anon

You don’t need to draft them, you can usually stream them because of this. Then if they sustain a few starts in a row you have a free guy for a while. You can use several of the current Rockies on the road and/or if you have a squad of RPs that keeps your weekly ratios down so you can eat a few runs and get a win and 8-10 Ks in a decent matchup. And a guy like Gray in points leagues gets plenty of innings and strikeouts. I will take production for free.

LenFuegoMember since 2025
7 years ago
Reply to  Anon

b-b-but THIS pitcher … THIS time … THIS season … THIS one is different than all those other flash-in-the-pan Rockies pitchers … I can just f-f-feel it!

docgooden85Member since 2018
7 years ago
Reply to  LenFuego

If it’s free, it’s me.

Broken BatMember since 2020
7 years ago

You Mentioned Rodon in the comparison, in pointing ou5 the success of Marquez ( 2nd only to Rodon). Do you feel same about Rodon, that perhaps he is also over valued.?

rhswanzey
7 years ago
Reply to  Broken Bat

Check out Rodon’s game logs for September. He was outperforming peripherals all summer with several shutout performances in the mix. Then got knocked around for 28 ER in Sep. Injury risk, obviously – looked like a very, very good starting pitcher all summer long. No double digit K games and I’d think he’s more valuable in real life than fantasy.

fairacresMember since 2016
7 years ago

Broader point: year 2’s ADP list often seems remarkably similar to year 1’s actual performance list. Behavioral Finance principles teach that humans place far too much emphasis on what just happened (year 1) , and tend to discount, forget, or ignore longer term data points (prior 3 or 4 years).

Mean reversion is an extremely powerful force.

Most assets have a strong tendency to mean revert over time, toward an established valuation level that is more or less in line with skills demonstrated over a sample size longer than one season.

On draft day, the allure of owning “the next great breakout” often trumps the discipline of buying high quality assets that are undervalued based on last year’s disappointing performance (adjusting for aging or injury issues). Or, the folly of extrapolating a peak level season to higher levels leads to an unrealistic assessment of a player’s “fair value” ADP.

Bobby Ayala
7 years ago

Gray 2017 2H: 86.1 IP, 18.9% K-BB%, 3.40 xFIP
Marquez 2018 2H: 93 IP, 28.4% K-BB%, 2.30 xFIP

I mean they’re both Rockies but these are two very different stretches.

Further, Marquez was great at home in the 2nd half:
41.1 IP, 32.5% K-BB%, 1.44 xFIP

rayguMember since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  Paul Sporer

Corbin had a very similar 2H 2017…….and he was an ace in 2018.

slingerMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  Paul Sporer

Marquez’ improved 2nd half in 2017 made me high on him for the 2018 draft.
I gave up on him on June 10 …

docgooden85Member since 2018
7 years ago

“Narrator: He didn’t.“

I’ve made a huge mistake.

BillClinton
7 years ago

I’m not white-knighting here but simply suggesting that “I’m a strikeout slut” from a dude of any walk is a bit oughts and could be re-thought.

stuck in a slump
7 years ago
Reply to  BillClinton

I found it kind of jarring to read that line too, but I also realize that Paul meant no harm with it and that we shouldn’t be slut shaming.

And lets face it, sluts are just women who act on their sexual urges like a stereotypical man. Maybe Paul’s just extra horny for K’s and thus deserves the title?

Crazyhurdlers
7 years ago
Reply to  Paul Sporer

Urban dictionary all over this place!

mbrieseMember since 2026
7 years ago
Reply to  Paul Sporer

Don’t let them shame you. I’m a strikeout slut too. Marquez, Foltynewicz, Pivetta – and maybe if I’m feeling squirrelly in late rounds, Bundy! I’m ready to get hurt again

BillClinton
7 years ago
Reply to  Paul Sporer

yeah I meant aughts. its just a silly word to use in any context really but not the end of the world.

stuck in a slump
7 years ago

As a J. Gray owner, do you have much hope for him this coming season? It seemed like his issues last year were due to tipping pitches, which should be fixable.

Steamer seems to think he’ll only pitch 146 innings with a 4.18 ERA and around a K per inning, I’m hoping he does better than that and he can be a #2 or #3 in fantasy as opposed to a back end guy.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
7 years ago

Shouldn’t we avoid Coors pitchers completely unless they come at a big discount?

Raw stats will just look so much worse than true talent. Also there seems to be a FIP underperforming at home too.

Team pitching splits

2018 home FIP: 4.18
2018 road FIP: 3.94
(+0.24)

2018 home ERA: 4.63
2018 road ERA: 4.03
(+0.6)

2017 home FIP: 4.23
2017 road FIP:4.25
(-0.02)

2017 home ERA:4.93
2017 road ERA:4.09
(+0.84)

2016 home FIP: 4.38
2016 road FIP:4.38
(+0.0)

2016 home ERA: 5.4
2016 road ERA:4.4
(+1)

Is that a coincidence? Fip doesn’t have that much of a split but raw ERA was a whopping 0.8 runs higher which would add 0.4 runs to a Coors pitchers ERA. This turns a mid 3s guy into a high 3s guy and a high 3s guy into unplayable.

That would mean only true elite guys are really playable at Coors.

My “analysis” probably isn’t that correct and I’m not really a pitching expert but that is what it was the last 3 years so I assume there is at least something to it.

aklangMember since 2016
7 years ago

A mistake we might be making is should I pick gray or freeland or marquez and the answer may turn out to be none of the above. Sometimes we frame things as either or and the answer is neither. I have Villar vs Mondesi in mind, I hope Mondesi can be a star and a think Villar has finally figured it out but a good probabilty outcome is they both are awful and some other dude comes up in mid season and rakes and ends up on my roster instead.

OTMHeartBBCMember since 2025
7 years ago

What i have learned is that there are ten or so top tier SP and everyone else is the same, so dont spend any money on them once the aces are gone

BenFranklin17
7 years ago

I’m going to throw up

RonnieDobbs
7 years ago

I sure as heck am not drafting a COL SP as a rotation anchor.

bjoakMember since 2020
7 years ago

Players in this article about the Marquez/Gray ADP whose current ADP is not explicitly stated: Marquez and Gray.

scott
7 years ago

We generally praise pitchers who find success by throwing a bad pitch less, but we’re holding it against Marquez. Why do we assume he can’t sustain success with a bad fastball if he cut down his FB usage? Isn’t that what Cole did?

Sun Tzu
7 years ago

TDLR: draft neither.