Andrelton Simmons: The New Jose Altuve?
They both weigh 170 pounds! Okay, one’s a lithe 6-foot-2, quick-twitch shortstop, and the other is a stocky 5-foot-7 second baseman, and actually we’ll get to many more differences as we go, but in the world of fantasy middle infielders, is there room for a comparison? Andrelton Simmons could be the late sleeper we all need at a tough position, just like Jose Altuve was last year.
Neither of these men is a guy you’ll own for power. Both hit the ball on the ground almost twice as much as they hit it in the air, and neither is likely to approach the league average in home runs per fly ball (although Simmons was closer, and as the taller man, might have more power projection in the future). If you capped either of their projections at ten home runs, you wouldn’t hear many complaints. OLIVER has Simmons with seven home runs, Bill James has him with ten, and the fans are casting the deciding vote with seven. Altuve’s projections are all within a homer of seven himself. So far, so good.
There’s enough speed in both of these middle infielders, and enough ground balls in both of their bats, that they should hit for a good batting average. They both hit for great batting averages in the minor leagues, too, although Simmons never quite had a season like Altuve’s .389/.426/.591 monster 2011 across two levels. Set the over/under at .280, though, and most would take the over for both of these young men. Still going strong.
Obviously the three-Altuve gorilla in the room is the respective speed of the two players. Altuve stole 33 last season and generally stole close to 30 most seasons on the way up to the majors. Simmons stole one in the majors last year (11 total), topped out at 26, and his 69% success rate in the minors doesn’t suggest he’ll get the green light even more. To make matters worse, Simmons took 64% of his at-bats in the eight hole, more commonly known as “Where Stolen Bases Go To Die.” This is why Bill James has Simmons at 18 stolen bases, and OLIVER has him at 14 per 600 plate appearances. This is how you steal one base in close to 200 plate appearances despite having speed and looking like an athlete out there. This is why it’s a stretch to compare the two.
But this isn’t quite over. As Brian Cartwright, the creator of OLIVER said to me on twitter, “being an effective stealer (good jumps) doesn’t correlate was well with speed.” Apparently, it’s “easier to predict who will attempt steals than success.” And so Simmons’ position in the batting order matters. The Braves have let it be known that they’d like a table-setter if they get another player this offseason, but other than Michael Bourn, the cupboard for top-of-the-order free agents is getting bare. The Bill James projection has Simmons with an average walk rate and a .351 OBP, which would easily beat the .319 OBP that the National league showed from the leadoff position last year. Even the fans’ more muted .337 OBP would do that. Simmons has speed, makes contact, and might be able to take a walk at a league average rate… if he ended up in the leadoff role, he certainly would get more opportunities to steal. And if he beat his stolen base projections by even just a handful, he’d inch that value into mixed-league starting shortstop territory.
It’s tempting to say that this is a lot of “ifs,” but it’s not like Altuve was without his. Even while he was being productive in the major leagues, we wondered about his size. And so with Simmons, we wonder about his speed. At a certain point in the draft, it’s worth taking a shot at a .290/10/30 middle infielder, that much we learned from Jose Altuve last season.
With a phone full of pictures of pitchers' fingers, strange beers, and his two toddler sons, Eno Sarris can be found at the ballpark or a brewery most days. Read him here, writing about the A's or Giants at The Athletic, or about beer at October. Follow him on Twitter @enosarris if you can handle the sandwiches and inanity.
Eno-
I’m curious if you’d put Segura in the same conversation as Simmons? Both were stuck in the 8-hole in 2012… both appear ready to handle leadoff for their respective teams. Which one do you project to have the better overall season in 2013? Defensively, Simmons is set at SS. Can the same be said for Segura in Milwaukee? Is it possible that Segura is closer to Altuve than Simmons is? What say you?
Yes I would. Segura’s speed seems more lineup-independent too. He might have a little less power, and certainly in stature he’s more Altuve-ian. If any of the three hits ten homers, I think it’s Simmons. If any of the three steals 35+ bases, I think it’s Segura.
Who would you take first between the two: Simmons and Segura?
Would Aybar go before either?
I’d prefer to wait until Aybar was taken, then take Segura or Simmons, whoever fell to me. But you can wait. In the RG mock, Aybar went in the fifteenth and Segura and Simmons are both on the board. Incidentally, these two players are why I’m more likely to wait on shortstop this year than second base.
Some scouts think Segura has more power projection than Simmons. Mike Newman projects 15 in his prime and other scouts even see a 20 HR ceiling. Waiting until one or the other is drafted makes sense. It will make it less likely that you’re reaching. Segura, Simmons and Altuve are all extremely young and probably at least a couple years away from their best power seasons.
In my 12 team NL only I’ve got both of those guys for $1. Good gamble to keep them both as SS and MI?
Eno, what’s your preference between Lawrie and Zimmerman in a keeper league? Zimm is a more known commodity but with question marks of his own, but Lawrie has all kinds of upside. Curious to hear your thoughts for 2013 and beyond.
Haven’t done my ranks yet, but I’ll take Lawrie. I think he can go .280 20/20 without too much straining, and that’s already more valuable than .285/25/0 before factoring r/rbi, which might favor the younger guy (health).
Awesome. Thanks, Eno!
I’d definitely be more interested in a flier on Simmons or Segura in the late rounds of a draft instead of Andrus in the 8th-10th. I don’t see the love affair w/ Andrus – seems like a lot of SS have the ability to replicate his production and those like Simmons and Segura have the potential for more.
I felt the same way about Andrus, but I wondered how a friend of mine in a keeper league was always so competitive while holding on to him as his SS.
I realize a good amount of his real life value comes from his defense. For fantasy purposes that just comes into play with positional eligibility. The good thing about Andrus is he is a SS and he looks like he will be playing SS for years to come. So that is a plus, especially in keeper leagues.
What Andrus does get is PAs by the bushloads. With that bushload of PAs Andrus is able to generate elite run totals. He has been healthy, in a good lineup and in a good park. It is how as Mike Pietrillo here at Fangraphs pointed out, only Jose Reyes and Derek Jeter have scored more runs in the last 3 years amongst shortstops. Andrus is just a good, safe play with a good floor. That is why he is highly valued in the draft. Even in a 5×5 setting, his numbers only hurt you in HRs at the position and if you can afford to lose HRs at any position it is SS. Andrus will be elite in runs, above average to average in SBs, average in batting average and RBIs for his position and below average in HRs. For fantasy purposes, he is not sexy but he is stable and for some teams that is enough depending on the makeup of the rest of your team. In my experience, draft for floor at the beginning of the drafts and upside late, not the other way around.
I am so biased towards Altuve. I love the way the guy plays. I concede Simmons still has some projection left in him and I expect Simmons’s power numbers to improve, but I don’t think I would enjoy watching Simmons play in the way Altuve does.
Plus, for fantasy I expect whatever HR difference to be minimal for the middle infield, while I would rather have the greater certainty in Altuve’s SB numbers versus Simmons completely uncertain total. Although, I would concede Simmons will be a greater value pick, as he will likely be chosen in the later rounds/lower auction $$ and at the SS position.
Watch Simmons play. That guy plays some out of this world defense maybe one of the best in the league. Simmons is a great guy to watch play the game. Give it a try sometime!
I’ll echo what Wil said: Have you not seen Andrelton Simmons field his position? It’s worth the price of admission. I even like watching the guy make routine plays.
And Simmons has displayed some power tonight: his first 2-HR game.
Where would you rank Rutledge? He seems to be around the same talent level of these guys but is penciled in for second base next year. Seems like it would give a huge boost to his value.
Wouldn’t Alcides Escobar be the Jose Altuve of shortstops? Or, are we only looking at players coming into their first full season?
Elvis Andrus was RotoGraphs #11 SS with #12 value EOY rankings which is not very good for a 5th rd pick. His SB’s were a major disapointment — only 5 in the 2nd half. He was taken #91 in R/G recent mock draft which seems about right to me.