A Fire Sale But Not A Liquidation

For those of us in keeper leagues, it’s the season of the fire sale. Owners without any hope of reaching first place are looking for top prospects in return for high priced veterans. Sometimes it pays to be the first team at the bonfire – the best prospects are still available for your talent.

A fire sale implies a discount, just like a liquidation. Owners who settle for pennies on the dollar may be doing themselves a disservice over the long run. Whether it’s due to pride or game theory, I’m convinced the best course of action is to sell at full price or not at all.

Yesterday, I announced a fire sale in the ottoneu league FanGraphs Staff Two. My team is fluttering around sixth place, which isn’t bad if you saw the state of the team when I inherited it. I’ve add a lot of premium talent, including Miguel Cabrera, Joey Votto, David Wright, Chase Utley, Craig Kimbrel, and others. My hope is I can flip some of those big names for cheap studs. While I will be using this ottoneu league for the examples in this article, the concepts apply to most keeper formats.

Given the quality of player on offer, I heard back from several owners immediately. In this particular league a few owners drafted for 2016 (not a typo, their rosters won’t be competitive next year). That helped me acquire good talent, but it also means roughly three quarters of all meaningful prospects are owned by teams that won’t trade them. As such, rather than focus on acquiring prospects, I’m turning my energies toward winning cheap veterans.

Several of my rivals are quite miserly with prospects. If you think about it, a 12 team ottoneu league is rarely going to roster more than 60 prospects. Plenty of high quality names are still on the waiver wire. Why not swap your $5 prospect of today for a high quality veteran and pick up a similar youngster over the offseason?

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One negotiation in particular is the reason I’m writing this article. I was offered Archie Bradley for Craig Kimbrel plus a player to be named. The owner allowed that Cabrera, Adam Wainwright, and Votto were probably too good to be the plus. The implication was that I should find a second player on his team to pair with one of my top 20 quality talents.

Given Bradley’s health, performance, and $5 price tag (at least $7 to keep), I countered with a straight Kimbrel for Bradley proposal. After all, Bradley is a good bet to miss a year for ligament replacement surgery. He was struggling with the PCL before the injury, and a few naysayers were turning up. If Bradley flopped, it wouldn’t be the first time a highly touted prospect ran into some injuries and never became anything. The way I saw it, I’d be taking on a ton of risk and trading a top two reliever for the privilege.

For the sake of example, let’s say there’s a 10 percent chance Bradley never does anything in the majors, a 10 percent chance he doesn’t supply any positive numbers, a 50 percent chance he’s somewhere around fantasy replacement level, and a 30 percent chance he’s somewhere between 100 and 500 points above average (obviously weighted towards the 100 side). We know Kimbrel is about 250-300 points above replacement level. It’s easy to get caught up in Bradley’s upside, but there’s so much between where he is today and the major league star he might become.

As expected the counter offer was rejected. My rival was nice enough to supply his reasoning. Of what he considers to be the five contending teams, one has very few players on affordable contracts and another has no prospects of note. That leaves three or four teams buying from the rest of us. If he holds onto Bradley, he might be able to weasel more out of an owner desperate to get anything back for his veterans. Basically, he says the supply of veterans outweighs the supply of low cost talent.

And that my friends is the punchline. A market works because a buyer and a seller agree to a price. Sometimes, market factors disrupt that process. It could be this owner would make the trade if there wasn’t a history of owners begging for future talent. After all, he didn’t poo-poo my valuation, he just said he expects to get a bigger return later in the season. Which leads me to my position. I’ll either trade at (near) full price, or I’ll go ahead and compete out of spite. I could still climb to third place with only a pinch of luck, and most of those expensive veterans will still be keepers.

Our ottoneu league is a points format, but this approach can have more savor in a roto league. As the seller, you’re sometimes in a position to trade away your points in a category to a rival. If they won’t trade at a reasonable price, you can see to it they never get those points from you. I’ve been on the losing end of those negotiations in the past. Trust me, you learn quickly to secure the win.





You can follow me on twitter @BaseballATeam

15 Comments
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Alex
12 years ago

This is pretty much exactly why I punted the season nearly two months ago. Lined my team up for next year and I’m pretty happy with how it shaped up.

Cee
12 years ago

You guys ever gonna do a piece on keepers here?

Most of us still have time to get our fire sales done in our keeper leagues.

I’m having having a real tough time trying to figure out which guys to target as top keepers for next season however.

Would be nice getting some help from the FG crew

Cee
12 years ago
Reply to  Brad Johnson

I’m sure the guys that have costs attached can figure out what is a decent price on a guy. Also thought most of the readers played in keeper leagues without costs attached. But I could be wrong. Thanks for the answer either way

Keith
12 years ago
Reply to  Brad Johnson

I think a way to address the issue is to identify players who either have had, or are expected to have, the largest change in value from the start of this season to the start of next. Regardless of keeper league structure these players likely are pretty good keepers. One method might be an update to the prospect rankings and time tables for callups (what is the latest outlook on Buxton, Sano, Profar, Addison Russel, Baez, and Pedersen). Maybe this has already been done and I have missed it.

The other way is to talk about established players with substantial improvements (Brantley for real? Duffy? Blackmon? Cruz?) and players who may see substantial decline around the corner (how long can Bautista keep this up? what about V-Mart? How long will Miggy stay a top 2 talent in Fantasy, what will that decline look like?) Now the latter method has been done here and there throughout the season in various places but never a consolidated article per my recollection.

Spoony McGoo
12 years ago

We must keep 10 each year, but we can keep guys forever with no restrictions or costs. So my strategy at the moment is to scan the rosters of the most likely contenders for guys that can plausibly be in the top 5 (IF) or top 15-20 (OF and SP) every year for the next 5 years….preferably already with some success in the bigs….and then figure out how to get that player from them.

jdbolickMember since 2016
12 years ago

I liked your idea of trading for undervalued veterans and will add my suggestion of post-hype young players. This is the perfect time to go after Travis D’Arnaud, for instance. Giving up Kimbrel for Bradley seems like not enough return as it is, but I’ve been lower on Bradley than almost anyone.

Tobias
12 years ago

Oh my God, we’re having a fire!

Sale.

Schif
12 years ago

Wasn’t sure where to post this but has anyone ever found or heard of a website or league that will do rotisserie for the regular season and head-to-head for the playoffs?

Schif
12 years ago
Reply to  Schif

** Not the actual MLB playoffs but the league’s playoffs where the top teams from the rotisserie stand point go head-to-head

Kris
12 years ago

Trading in keeper leagues is ridiculous. The only reasonable people I know are the ones that’ve been in keeper leagues for more than say, 5ish years. The people that started up during the Strasburg, Harper, Trout-era really haven’t witnessed the downside of prospects. People don’t seem to grasp that in most standard leagues, most highly rated prospects amount to nothing more than replacement level.

If I have 1.5 years of Kimbrel left in an inflation league at around his expected value. I’m asking a lot for it. More than Archie Bradley. For every Mike Trout, Jose Fernandez, Strasburg, Harper, Stanton etc., there’s a Chris Davis, Donaldson, Seguera, Dee Gordon, EE, Jose Bautista, Nelson Cruz, Dozier, Todd Frazier, etc. Prospects -> Busts (at age 25 lol) -> Actual Players. Even with Segura and Gordon, the original owners probably didn’t pay inflation prices.

There’s probably less than a 20% chance that Archie Bradley actual gets to the level of top-20 SP. Then, factor in the injury risk.

I hate keeper leagues, and I hate the idiotic decisions owners often make in them. Furthermore, most keeper leagues don’t make it out of year three without at least half the owners *giving up.* They pay their dues, but that’s it.

/end rant

Obviously ottoneu solves a lot of these problems.

phoenix2042
12 years ago

What about someone like Marco Estrada? Is he worth a spot at this point? He is having a really hard year, but it seems like the underlying skills are still there. I want an article on him! Rotographs, help me out!

Saul
12 years ago
Reply to  phoenix2042

Dump him.

Cuck City
12 years ago

Swapped two rockies – my $36 CarGo for $4 Arenado

winrar right?