The Unwritten Rules
Over the course of the last three weeks, I have explored different ethical and strategic questions posed to me via email and social media. It has been a fun series to write, but now we have reached it’s conclusion for the 2016 regular season. I hope to make this a reoccurring series next season. So, whenever I can get enough questions and/or scenarios for a full piece I will write up my answers. Some people really enjoyed this series. Others hated it and the answers I gave, but it made for interesting discussions within the comment sections. I would label that a success. Feel free to send me more questions at JustinMasonFantasy@gmail.com or on twitter @JustinMasonFWFB and when I have enough, I will do an offseason installment. Thanks for playing along!
Is it acceptable to tank for better draft position next year? If so, to what end? Can I pick up poor players and start them on purpose? Can I make purposely poor trades? -Jason P.
As I said in a previous installment of this series, while I don’t have an issue with tanking, I think leagues should make safeguards against it. If you are going to tank because these safeguards aren’t in place, I have no problem picking up poor players and starting them. I do however; have an issue with making poor trades on purpose because it gives someone else an unfair advantage. If you believe that making your team worse in the short term makes you better in the long term, then so be it, but you shouldn’t make trades that you receive anything in return.
Justin is the co-host on The Sleeper and The Bust Podcast and writes for Rotographs covering the Roto Riteup as well as other periodic articles. In addition to his work at Rotographs, Justin is the lead fantasy writer/analyst and co-owner for FriendswithFantasyBenefits.com, and the owner of The Great Fantasy Baseball Invitational. He is also a certified addiction treatment counselor. Follow Justin on Twitter @JustinMasonFWFB.
Regarding eliminated teams making trades; whatever benefits gained from “playing for pride” are not worth the potential for abuse/cheating or just stupidity. An eliminated team who helps a team win (via trade) a league should never ever be allowed. Perhaps a compromise is to allow teams to trade only with teams within 2 positions in the standings of them after an agreed upon date.
In H2H keeper leagues, at minimum there ought to be a trade freeze once the playoffs start until the conclusion of the season. A trade deadline in mid-August is probably even better.
I agree in H2H league. That is why I suggested the deadlines that I did
While I don’t understand ottoneu, it sounds like the guy placing the $55 bid on Stanton was trying to collude of sorts. If his intention was to block the one guy from getting Stanton for $35, and he needed the other managers to be on the same page to do it, isn’t that collusion?
(Again, I don’t get ottoneu.)
I don’t think it’s collusion. He was trying to play mind games and it didn’t go quite as planned, but at least Stanton still went for over $50. Chad wrote about this earlier and it ended poorly for him as well. http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/how-to-turn-an-easily-acquired-giancarlo-stanton-into-nothing-in-three-easy-steps/. He didn’t even get Adam Jones.
One point Justin left out was that our commissioner (Chad) was the one telling people what to do about my comment. As Justin points out, since I publicly announced my plan, I was sort of inviting the response I got. But it should have come from anybody but the commissioner.
It shouldn’t have come from anyone much less the commissioner.
I’m not sure I agree with the hard stance here. I think the view of Brad is what I would agree with. The topic at hand, it appears that the commissioner did start collusion amongst the other owners.
I think we got a great commissioner in our league. Our boards aren’t particularly active, but when things get posted, he always checks it out. And just because he’s commissioner, doesn’t mean he’s not afraid to get into a good ol’ flame war. Me and him have had some good ones. But when it comes to league business, any time there’s discussion about changes, he’ll always bring it to a league vote. And the fact that we’ve had flame wars doesn’t change the way I’d say something with him was collusion or not collusion. Basically, he posts just like any other owner, except when it comes to league business. That’s the way it should be.
In the end, Brad made a post that, as I post below, I thought was nothing more than gamesmanship. I did take a quick look through that thread, and I definitely would come to the conclusion that there was collusion started by the commissioner. Collusion shouldn’t happen ever, ideally. But, I enjoyed the jabs me and our commissioner got in at each other during some topics. He should never have to think twice about making posts like that. If one takes such a hard line on what he posts, I think that’s going to limit what the commissioner is going to be willing to post. I don’t think they should ever have to think twice about posting.
With what I said in the last paragraph, I would put Brad’s post as something that falls under “league business”. It was not something that was official, so that’s what makes the commissioner, in particular, look bad here. If someone else in the league wanted to call bullshit, I would view that as nothing more than gamesmanship.
I think we’re closer to the same view on this, than not. I think I just draw the line, between what gets posted by the commissioner, higher than what you would.
The one league I ever did that determined draft position by finish the year before, avoided the tanking problem by giving the team that finished the highest and out of the money the top draft pick. Top 4 cashed in that league, so #1 draft pick went to 5th place, #2 went to 6th, etc. So teams actually tried to get to finish higher even if they couldn’t cash.
My long standing h2h dynasty league has a losers bracket (bottom half of the league) during the playoffs with the winner of that getting the #1 entry draft pick in the offseason. I suppose you could throw a season to get into that pool but mostly it incentivizes everyone to finish strong. Since tie-breaker goes to the higher seed and seeding is by regular season record you really don’t want to finish in the bottom few.
I prefer weighted lotteries. Gives the worse teams a better chance, but not enough where it is worth tanking over.
H2H points, 8 team, 6 keeper league
I don’t see why teams out of the playoffs shouldn’t be able to trade with teams that are. There are people like me that are willing to go “all in” on this season, and trade away prospects and/or draft picks to improve my team for this season. Sending a potential keeper prospect and/or improving the weaker team’s draft position for next season is beneficial to that owner.
I like having a trade deadline though. I think week 18 of 19 (then 3 two-week playoff rounds) is our trade deadline, which falls in the mid-to-late August range. While we usually have some decent trade chatter amongst each other all year, it does pick up before the deadline, and I’m in a competitive league, so sometimes you kind of do trade to make sure your competition doesn’t acquire assets that can help them win the championship.
I don’t have a problem with tanking per se, although in our league format, six of the eight teams make the playoffs. You have to be doing something really, really, wrong, and have a bunch of really, really, strong teams to have any team out of contention. This year, that’s kind of how out league was, and we still had the last playoff spot come down to week 19. Top 3 teams were 14-5, 13-5-1, and 13-6. Last year, the tanker was leaving empty starting lineup spots and DL guys in his lineup, though. I can see if you’re fully dedicated to tanking, that’s your best bet to get the #1 pick. But it does kind of screw over other teams who are chasing the playoffs. This year, every team set their lineups even through to the championship round this year.
I’m not an Ottoneu or Roto player, but on those two questions, I’d say NOT collusion for making the post for Giancarlo Stanton, but clear collusion by the other owners afterwards. Unless the bid is actually submitted, nothing is official. This is nothing more than gamesmanship. The trade with pitchers, I agree that is collusion. You are setting another team’s lineup, as is mentioned.