When Should You Pay for Elite Relievers?
As you might have noticed, we are a few days into our offseason analysis of relievers. We’ve mostly discussed the best of the best thus far, and we’ve been sure to warn everybody that waiver wire hawks may want to allocate the $20 it takes to win a Craig Kimbrel to another position. If you’re the kind of guy who finds a Koji Uehara or Mark Melancon for free year after year, why should you pay $20 for a closer? You’ll eventually get your saves – even if you’re at the bottom of the pile in April – and the extra $20 could go into hiring 20 more home runs and RBI in the outfield or a catcher that contributes in more than one category.
Like every other position, closers also get hurt. Unlike most other positions, the guy who steps in as the next closer is sometimes as good or better than the first guy. Again, see Uehara and Melancon. So that’s the common line of thinking on elite relievers, that an active owner can find underpriced saves without taking on the injury risk of a $20 relief asset. However, there are definitely circumstances where it makes all the sense in the world to pay for 40 saves, massive strikeout totals, and drool worthy ratios.
On Monday, Brett Talley discussed the first use case as part of his analysis on Kimbrel. Some owners aren’t micro-managers. Some owners don’t even check their rosters every day, let alone monitor every closer situation by setting up Google alerts and scouring twitter. These owners aren’t going to be the first to pick up Melancon, Uehara, or Danny Farquhar. They might be the first to get Kevin Gregg, but that’s probably because 11 other owners decided that his saves weren’t worth his ratios.
In this circumstance, paying for an elite closer serves a dual purpose. One, it’s the best way to guarantee saves in a scenario where they can’t be freely acquired. Even if such owners actively participate in trade talks (and usually, these are the same owners who ignore all offers), closers can be notoriously hard to acquire without gutting another position. The other purpose is that the strikeouts and ratios of an elite closer help to mitigate under-management of the starting rotation. For example, last year you drafted Cole Hamels to be very good, and he was only kind of good. But Kimbrel helped cancel out Hamels’ disappointing season.
Now it’s time for a show of hands, how many of you out in readerland are that owner?
I’d be surprised if any of you volunteered. You’re reading an article on RotoGraphs in the middle of January. You’re probably sitting in an office or cube, supposedly hard at work on your TPS reports but actually tinkering with keeper decisions that can’t be finalized for another six weeks. So, let’s rephrase things, when should a typical RotoGraphs reader pay for elite saves?
As I outlined last Tuesday in my article about Aroldis Chapman, the best time is probably when you have missed out on all the elite starting pitchers – maybe your rivals paid way too much for them so you abstained – and you don’t want to rely on pure luck to keep you in the race for pitching categories. You can combine a guy like Chapman with a mid-tier starter – say Doug Fister – and get as much or more bang for your buck as an elite starter. According to Fantasy Pros, Felix Hernandez cost an average of $28, while Fister cost $11 and Chapman cost $17. Let’s see how King Felix compares to our Fister/Chapman duo and for the sake of example, let’s throw in a duo of Fister and Sean Doolittle to represent a fantasy replacement level reliever. That pairing would cost just $12.
| IP | W | SV | K | ERA | WHIP | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Hernandez | 204.1 | 14 | 0 | 216 | 3.04 | 1.13 |
| Fister and Chapman | 272.1 | 18 | 38 | 271 | 3.11 | 1.24 |
| Fister and Doolittle | 277.2 | 19 | 2 | 219 | 3.53 | 1.22 |
Team Chapped Fist presented a similar strikeout rate and ERA to Hernandez. The combined WHIP was mediocre, but the 38 saves could be more valuable (that depends on many factors). Meanwhile, our low cost alternative performed like a low cost alternative. The WHIP was similarly poor but without the redeeming saves. The strikeout rate and ERA were also much poorer. Sure, the latter scenario is $16 cheaper, but that’s a much bigger hole out of which to climb. Chapman and Fister aren’t even cherry picked examples. If I wanted to blow Hernandez out of the water, I could have combined $11 Max Scherzer with Kenley Jansen or Greg Holland.
Despite listing all values in auction dollars, this strategy is easiest to execute in snake drafts. That’s because the top tier of starters is drafted before most of the top tier of closers. So you know for certain if you missed out on those starters. In an auction, you might find that Kimbrel, Jansen, and Chapman are nominated in the first 20 picks while Cliff Lee and David Price are still on the table 100 picks later.
The third scenario where it makes sense to pay for elite relievers is in auction keeper leagues. Sometimes you get lucky and build the mother lode of keeper rosters. You have Mike Trout for $10, Josh Donaldson for $3, Sonny Gray for $3, and Stephen Strasburg for $12. I’ll say this as scientifically as possible, that hypothetical keeper roster has a buttload* of surplus value. Compared to your rivals, you have more flexibility in the draft. You can combine your elite starters with elite relievers to put all five pitching categories in the bag.
*A buttload is the industry term for over $50 of surplus value. It’s possible that I should have used metric buttload since that refers to over $75 of surplus value.
That’s really all there is to that last strategy. When you are oozing in surplus value, you can go to the market and buy the king crab legs, filet mignon, and a fancy plate on which to serve them. When you have the resources to buy luxury goods, do so. Trust me, it feels really nice to build demoralizing leads in the pitching categories by mid-May.
Of course, there are the usual myriad of niche strategies that don’t fall into any of these buckets but are otherwise too rare to cover. I trust that any owner who intentionally employs an unusual strategy can fend for themselves. That leaves the three scenarios above as the best cases for drafting an elite reliever. Tomorrow, by reader request, I’ll look into the value of elite relievers in Ottoneu Points leagues.
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Brad, how did you get a camera into my office cube?
Should you compare Fister/Chapman to Felix/Mid-level closer? Seems like that’s the alternative if you pass on the elite guys because they are going to early.
I don’t think so, because Felix + mid level closer is going to be more expensive. What does a mid level closer go for, $7? Then you’re comparing different costs.
You already are, as an extra roster spot is a cost itself.
We could do Felix and Doolittle again, that would have been 19 W, 2 S, 276 K, similar ERA and maybe +.07 WHIP. But with Hernandez, you probably wouldn’t use that roster spot in that way.
A Train is correct, you cant just dismiss the extra roster spot. He makes the correct comp.
What about in NL- and AL- only leagues? Fifteen (or more realistically around 13 and four half) closers for 10+ teams sort of changes the equation, no?
For counting saves, yes. For elite rate stats, doubly yes. Anything elite is more valuable in an Only league, whether it’s a POS player, SP, or RP. Relievers are extremely volatile by nature – a couple bad innings can ruin their season performance, so they aren’t the safest avenue to invest your big bucks. But saves is definitely the easiest category to manage.
been using high k guys paired with 21-50 SPs and winning for years. Good article.
Keep Kimbrel? 12 teams, mixed roto? Can keep six. Is Kimbrel the only guy worth keeping in such a scenario?
blindly: yes. if it’s 12 teams and you keep 6 that’s 72 total players. without knowing who the rest of your keepers are kimbrel would qualify as he is certainly in the top 72 players in fantasy.
Without knowing more, I agree. It always comes down to your league though. For example, is there a cost to keeping a player or do you just keep six?
the argument isn’t that chapman and fister are better or as valuable as felix, but rather if you miss out on elite SP’s, this is a strategy that provides other alternatives than drafting a SP earlier than you want or overbidding.
a straight comp makes no sense because the numbers will be skewed when you compare 204 IP to 277 IP/ 1 player to 2 players
Brad, this is off topic but whos gonna start in the outfield for the white sox this year between de aza, eaton, viciedo, and garcia? I have de aza in a keeper league and love the guy but i wanna make sure he will start and get sufficient at bats.
Hahn has all but guaranteed Eaton and Garcia will be regulars. If the season started today, Viciedo and De Aza would probably be in some sort of platoon, though there’s a decent chance one of them is traded before the season begins.
I’ve heard that De Aza is probably getting shifted to 4th OF duties, but they are working to find a trade partner. I imagine Viciedo is available too since he has a lot in common with Mark Trumbo.
In the league that I am in, I feel the format does not reward elite starting pitching as much as it does elite starting hitting. An elite set of hitters can make a team one of the best whereas many average and losing teams have above average to great pitching. Because of this observation, I have always sold my elite starting pitchers that I have acquired on the cheap at what I believe to be peak value to upgrade my starting hitters. Leading me to my point of this post.
I had this exact idea around the midway point of last season, I realized that a rebuilding team who only really had above average to great closers because they are never kept and acquired cheaply was winning L, ERA, WHIP, and SVHD on a weekly basis. That is four of the seven pitching categories. So I thought why can’t that work for a team with a handful of average starting pitchers and two or three great closers in a league in which we only start three total pitchers a day. As long as the closers also had a great K rate, I should almost always win L, ERA, WHIP, and SVHD while regularly completing in K leaving QS and W as the normal crapshoots they typically are and I would not have to start junk streamer starting pitchers if I drafted some starting pitchers with upside.
So this year, instead of keeping five or six starting pitchers that are usually average at best and one or two will under perform (looking at you Mike Fiers, Dan Haren, Marco Estrada, and the rest of you bastards), I am keeping four starting pitchers that I trust to at least be average and two elite closers. I acquiring Rosenthal as a throw-in to a trade and Chapman for Brandon Morrow. I think Rosenthal and Chapman plus Garza, Garcia, Medlen, and Archer along with starting hitters of Posey, Votto, Zobrist, Donaldson, Andrus, Holiday, Choo, Werth, Gordon, and Rendon should work out pretty well as 16 keepers in a 16 team league.
It is the most excited I have been about a set of 16 keepers in a long time. I can’t wait to see how it turns out. Is it April yet?
the problem with that is that no sane league only has 3 total pitchers starting per day. those are pretty terrible settings.
Is it worth paying for elite guys in leagues where all set up guys w/ any potential are owned @ draft? Or at least will be bid on with faab by most owners whenever any news breaks?
Yes, it can be. However, if that is your only decision criteria, then it still depends on cost.
Remember, YMMV depending on league size, league type, categories, etc.
I’ve always been a proponent of zigging while everyone else is zagging, and have been drafting pitching — starting and relieving — for years. If I’m not mistaken, in my eight-man league, the first two starting pitchers off the board were mine in the first two rounds. Kimbrel was the first reliever off the board when I took him in the fifth round.
Whether you’re winning your league with cheap, undervalued relievers or cheap, undervalued outfielders, it doesn’t matter — so long as you’re winning.
This article reminded me very much of my draft in my most important league last year. I am usually the last person to draft a closer early. However, after abstaining from a run on starting pitching, I found myself needing pitching at my 6th round draft pick and looking at gallardo, halladay, morrow, shields, and Ian Kennedy as the best SPs on the board. I drafted Kimbrel. I spent the next few weeks stressing about being the first to draft a closer and wondering what the impact on my team would be. Turns out it was the best pick I could’ve made for the team I had. Elite closers are perfect additions to those high upside/high volatility starting staffs!
I was hit with a similar scenario. I did start the draft by nominating and winning Kimbrel with the 2nd overall nomination, but my team fell into the surplus value category so it was an intended strategy.
My leaguemates then proceeded to overpay virtually all SP. So I went to plan C of $5 Lynn, $6 Kuroda, and $3 Beckett as my drafted SP. I kept Cueto for $15. I then found RP was going too cheaply so in addition to Kimbrel I got $9 Romo, $9 Nathan, $9 Grilli (and kept $8 Rodney). I then fiddled with the waiver wire until I eventually ended up with Gray, Estrada, Kluber, Nova, Wood, Quintana. I won the league with 55/60 pts in hitting and 45/60 pts in pitching. The relievers likely netted me an auto-12 in SV along with several points in K/ERA/WHIP.
“… You’re reading an article on RotoGraphs in the middle of January. …tinkering with keeper decisions that can’t be finalized for another six weeks.”
Busted.
Just for the record–my keeper decisions are due next week.
Brad, I think your home league is a great example of the chaos of values that makes pre-determining CL strategy fruitless. My first year, I had to trade two hot weeks of Willingham for Street because I was wrong in thinking I could get decent closers for less than $11. Then, last year, you and I got butt-loads of them for nothing because no one paid for them. Your boy at HBT was insistent throughout the year that he wouldn’t give up value for said-closers, because they weren’t worth it on an absolute basis, but the fact was that, since no one but us paid for them at auction, valuable resources in that category were thin… supply vs. demand. But you can never predict how that valuation will play out on draft day – even in the same scoring structure and with mostly the same managers – so you have to be flexible during those two or three hours.
Yea I just posted about that draft as you were leaving this comment. I was shocked at the price of SP so I switched plans mid-draft. Then good ol’ Jeff got himself in a position where he needed to buy saves from me when it simply wasn’t in my best interest.
I drafted ONLY closers last year*. Got burned by Motte, Putz, Soriano, and Romo, but still won Saves, ERA and WHIP almost every week and in both playoff games I played in. Lost Wins and K’s every week obviously. Offense carried me to 3rd place.
If Allen Craig and Brett Gardner hadn’t gotten hurt I’m convinced I would’ve won it all.
*My league only has 10 innings required per week
…and that’s why H2H Roto leagues are dumb.
Regular Roto is at least a little more realistic, since it would be tough to punt 20% of the categories there and still win.
To each his own, but I prefer a good ol’ weekly H2H points league.
Tell that to my old college teammates. We still have a H2H league together and I’ve been trying to convert them to a points system for years. I think I’ve convinced 1 of 11 owners
Wow, that’s pretty surprising to me. I always thought of H2H Roto leagues as a kind of fad that developed in the time between traditional Roto being the mainstream option and H2H Points leagues becoming prominent. I suppose some folks get attached to pursuing the individual categories, coupled with H2H being more “exciting” than normal Roto.
One of my favorite pastimes is browsing the custom league listings on Yahoo and looking at the ridiculous number of categories some of them have… I would love exploiting the repetitveness this creates (hits, average, OBP, singles, BB, and fewest strikeouts?? Take good K/BB ratio hitters all day, baby!!) if I didn’t hate the format so much.
people actually play H2H points? in baseball?
you must mean for fantasy football right?
I’m in a 12 team, AL + NL points league. We have the option of 5 keepers at the top of the draft and 2 “rookie” keepers for our 24th and 25th picks.
I’m sorting out my keepers for 2014 now: I’m keeping Goldschmidt, McCutcheon, Posey and Kemp. Should I keep Kenley Jansen as my 5th keeper? (or Ryan Zimmerman?)
Keep Kenley or Aroldis?
10 team dynasty league where you can keep any 10 players. 2,000 innings limit.
Not enough info to advise you on either player. Possibly, but I suspect not due to the huge IP limit. Of course, it also depends on scoring and other factors.
5×5 roto. Mentioned 2k innings limit because pitching is valued pretty highly. Most teams max out. Remaining roster spots are filled by auction. This makes your view on SP/RP combos very relevant.
It’s a tough call for me because Aroldis will likely pitch more innings, but Kenley seems to be earlier in the elite phase of his career. Aroldis may be closer to the relief pitcher cliff.
Both pitchers should probably be expected to decline around the same time.
Chapman is supposedly going to be used in multiple innings, which may Jansen the safer choice. Chapman’s going to end up with fewer saves if he’s throwing 2-3 innings in some outings.