ottoneu Post-Keeper Deadline Round Up

Over the next few weeks, my goal is going to be to do my best to help prepare you for the upcoming ottoneu auctions. But today, with the keeper deadline still fresh on all of our minds (I will have nightmares if Matt Moore strikes out everyone in sight this year…), I thought I’d stop and take a look at where we are today.

As of Friday night at midnight ET, every team in the ottoneu universe is (or at least should be) down to 40 or fewer players on the roster and $400 or less in salary spent, and that gives us a chance to see who all of you deemed worthy of keeping.

We’ll start with the 4×4 leagues, since that was the original ottoneu format. I actually can’t just tell you who the most commonly kept player here was – 56 players tied for that honor. They are peppered with the usual suspects (Andrew McCutchen, Paul Goldschmidt, etc.) but the bulk of them come from two camps.

The first is players who were cheap before the season and broke out during it. Jose Fernandez, Julio Teheran, Domonic Brown, Matt Carpenter. The second group is top prospects that people hope will join that first group this summer, players like Xander Bogaerts, Jameson Taillon, George Springer and Oscar Taveras.

In the 5×5 leagues, only 38 players tied for “most kept,” and they came from the same sets, with one exception – no RP cracked the most kept 4×4 list, but in 5×5 there are a couple unsurprising names. Craig Kimbrel is probably the most obvious, but Koji Uehara, Casey Janssen, Trevor Rosenthal, David Robertson, Greg Holland, and Kenley Jansen all made the list. And other than Kimbrel, they all have something in common – there was a point last year that they could have been signed relatively cheap, but they now have closer roles all to themselves. If you find yourself building for the future, don’t skip out on bidding for relievers rising to (or potentially rising to) closer in the near future. Keep a close eye on undefined closer roles – if you can snag a $5 reliever in the auction and he runs with the ninth, you have yourself a very valuable asset.

SABR Points leagues saw more than 75 players tie for the most roster spots, but in FanGraphs Points, 24 rose above the rest. The interesting thing there is that Clayton Kershaw, who did not make the cut in either roto league, did so in both points leagues. Honestly, the owners in the SABR Points leagues may have made a mistake – SP just is not all that valuable in that format – but Kershaw was far and away the most valuable player in FanGraphs Points leagues last year and, for my money, should be the highest paid player in those leagues this year.

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Speaking of highest paid, the table below shows the most expensive hitter and pitcher from each format, based on average salary kept:

Format Hitter Salary Overall Rank Pitcher Salary Overall Rank
4×4 Miguel Cabrera $54.64 1 Clayton Kershaw $47.86 4
5×5 Miguel Cabrera $61.67 1 Clayton Kershaw $43.72 11
FG Pts Miguel Cabrera $57.92 1 Clayton Kershaw $46.52 5
SABR Pts Miguel Cabrera $58.83 1 Clayton Kershaw $47.33 6

Sensing a pattern? Maybe a couple, actually. Clearly there is wide-spread agreement on the two most valuable fantasy producers, and clearly there is agreement on paying hitters more than pitchers.

Just below that, though, things get more interesting. If I asked you to guess who was the second highest paid player in these formats, I imagine most of you would go with a certain Angel whose last name rhymes with pout. But in two of the four formats, Mike Trout falls third, with Joey Votto sneaking in ahead of him. This is surprising to me, but I attribute it to the fact that there are probably quite a few Trout owners out there who had Trout for single digits two years ago and have seen his salary get bumped in arbitration the last couple years, but not to the point that he would be paid on the open market. By the way, to the SABR Pts team that owns a $22 Mike Trout – what are the other owners in your league doing?!

Finally, how about a quick look at the most expensive single contract in each format:

Format Hitter Salary Pitcher Salary
4×4 Miguel Cabrera $68 Clayton Kershaw $67
5×5 Mike Trout $102 Justin Verlander $93
FG Pts Mike Trout $92 Clayton Kershaw $65
SABR Pts Miguel Cabrera/Mike Trout $66 Clayton Kershaw $58

$102 for Mike Trout! A century man! That is 25% of a budget! It is also probably a huge mistake. Fascinating that Verlander passes Kershaw in highest 5×5 salary – when you move away from averages and look at outliers you get, well…outliers.

And we’ll end with a story and a caveat. Last year, in the heat of a championship chase, one of the owners in the original ottoneu league traded for a ton of top talent, including the $67 Kershaw you see listed in 4×4 above. By the 2013 trade deadline, he had Kershaw, a $60 Miguel Cabrera, $59 Justin Verlander, $49 Robinson Cano, $49 Prince Fielder, $45 Jered Weaver, $40 Buster Posey, $39 David Price, $37 Dustin Pedroia, $36 Matt Holliday and $33 Adrian Beltre. That is 11 players for $504.

Obviously he had to make a lot of cuts, but he kept Kershaw, Cabrera, Cano, Posey, and Price. Building a winning team when you enter the auction with $72 to spend on 27 roster spots is an uphill climb to say the least. But this owner let me know that his plan is to see what he can cobble together, but that he wanted to keep those five, particularly the top two, because of their trade value – the fastest way to rebuild, he felt, was to sell those players to the highest bidder for prospects and cheap talent.

I am sharing this not to advise for or against this approach, but to remind you that ottoneu salary data, like all data, is subject to all sorts of behaviors and interactions. Just because you see a $67 Kershaw being kept doesn’t mean an owner thinks Kershaw is worth $67 – but if keeping him drives up the prices of other SP and allows you to later trade him to someone desperate for pitching help, that could well be a win.





A long-time fantasy baseball veteran and one of the creators of ottoneu, Chad Young's is the Managing Editor for RotoGraphs, and can be heard on the Keep or Kut Podcast. You can follow him on Bluesky @chadyoung.bsky.social.

52 Comments
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LarryA
12 years ago

Did that guy win the original league?

bfd106bMember since 2016
12 years ago

Love, love, LOVED your article last year about auction values for all formats of ottoneu…can we look forward to a 2014 version in the coming days?

tylersnotes
12 years ago

The ottoneu avg salaries page was invaluable to me as i was deciding on who to keep and who to cut– it’s one thing to have my own projections for what a player could be worth, but knowing what the average value is across all leagues helps me see what the average market is for such a player. For instance, i had anthony rizzo at $27 and cut him, I feel like he could end up being worth around $25 and the extra few bucks aren’t worth fussing over, but I also now feel confident that I could buy him back for less.

It would be great if Ottoneu could either make links to these resources more clearly available, or make more resources available. I would love to have access to some of the data around player values, and being able to break it apart by format is particularly helpful.

tylersnotes
12 years ago
Reply to  tylersnotes

thanks chad for passing along my feedback. i have a couple other ideas that i’ll send along to Niv directly.

CC AFCMember since 2016
12 years ago

Any interesting data about number of keepers and total amount of money spent on keepers per team? Seems like my league settled around 25ish keepers per team and $340 or so dollars in keepers with a couple outliers. Would be curious to know of that’s similar to other leagues or not.

Rainja182
12 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

The league I’m in is in one of three camps. A few of the owners were very satisfied with their club and dropped low end easily replaceable talent giving them 8-12 open spots and about $30-90 to spend. Several others cut a few big cost guys that are on the decline and several low end talents, which give them about $90-$120 to work with and a dozen or more roster spots to fill. The third camp were polar opposites of each other, last years winner (5 open spots, $8 free), and myself (10 open spots, $162 free).

Nelson S.
12 years ago

Most Otto articles are about points leagues. Can you tell us what percentage of leagues are points vs 5×5 vs 4×4?

tylersnotes
12 years ago
Reply to  Chad Young

i’d love to know what about 4×4 makes it the best to you. I absolutely love the points league format; i’m a sucker for strategy games that have a really well balanced game engine and the fg points scoring system is the most balanced fantasy sports scoring i’ve come across. My problem with formats like 4×4 and 5×5 is that there are certain players who are obviously the most valuable, and nearly everyone else is worth very little. In those formats a ‘stars and scrubs’ strategy will almost always win; it seems like a really easy game to ‘break’ where a few teams are guaranteed to finish in the top 3 and everyone else will be outside looking in or spending way too much on prospects

tylersnotes
12 years ago
Reply to  Chad Young

I read eno’s piece too and enjoyed it but I just don’t see it that way. Evaluating players is about projecting future performance– what do I care if player a has been worth 1200 points last season; I care what I think he’ll be worth going forward. This is the same with roto formats just standardized in points leagues. In roto; I know hr will be low across the league and sb’s are cheap. Every owner knows this and evaluates every player equally as a result– maybe I believe in Rutledge and you don’t, but what we believe in is his contribution to maybe 3 categories tops.

In a points league I get to look for guys like Matt carpenter who are barely on the radar in roto (or, after they stop being sleepers, are grossly overvalued in roto).

Points leagues unlock players who are only marginal in roto.

tylersnotes
12 years ago
Reply to  Chad Young

chad– the best example i can think of off the bat is marco scutaro circa 2011- guys who get on base and get extra base hits, maybe produce runs and maybe get rbis but don’t have a ton of power or speed. These are skill sets that are incredibly valuable in baseball, and never worth as much in roto formats. Matt Carpenter is that type of guy to me because, while he produced a ton of runs and rbi, he can’t be expected to repeat that level of performance but he could still be a top 5 2b in a points league. if he’s a top 5 2b in roto it’s only because it’s a weak position.

Part of my being down on roto leagues almost certainly comes from the leagues i’ve been in just not being active enough– putting together trades by saying “you need power and i need SB so let’s help each other” sounds great but i just haven’t seen that happen enough in my experience. seems like position-based trades are more frequent anyway.

I think in a casual redraft league the format ultimately doesn’t matter as much as all of the other aspects around who else is in your league and how they operate; in dynasty/keeper leagues the format becomes more important because transactions and evaluations are necessarily going to include future projected value, and in these cases i prefer points because it opens up a class of players who are largely ignored by standard roto players/analysis (namely, obp guys).

I also think it’s not accurate to compare SB value in a points format to SB value in roto– SB is the only measure of speed in roto but there are other ways speed is rewarded in points formats. If a guys legs can stretch a single to a double, he gets rewarded for it.

Maybe, though, I like points formats because i love Ben Zobrist and want him to be rewarded

Jonathan
12 years ago

Speaking for the other owners in the league with the $22 Trout, we enforce a modified arbitration system that privileges the first three years of a player’s service time. We weren’t able to affect Trout’s price the last two seasons. He will get more expensive after this year.

Jonathan
12 years ago
Reply to  Chad Young

I think we are happy with it. Basically, each team has a player voted off their roster at the end of the year via the arbitration system, and the owner is given a $5 discount on that player at auction. No player with less than two years of service time can be voted off. Players with 2-3 years of service time can be “protected” from arbitration with a $6 salary increase. It gives teams an incentive to develop prospects on their 40-man roster.

Now, it so happens that no one has made that strategy pay yet. The guy who owns Trout also owns a number of current top prospects and has yet to finish top-half. But the whole point is obviously to craft a long-term strategy, so I think you’re right that 1-2 years from now might be the right time to evaluate.

dlinde
12 years ago
Reply to  Chad Young

Same league. It creates the potential for protected surplus value, and in doing so encourages prospect hoarding. But rostering prospects comes at the expense of mlb depth, and I wouldn’t say those teams are advantaged. For what it’s worth, our prospect values are in sync with other ottoneu leagues. I guess I’d say we’re happy with the results, and the net change is slight. Three years is fine.

The team with the $22 trout is sitting on Taveras, Buxton, and Baez, among others. So we’ll see. Maybe I’ll eat my words.

JFC
12 years ago
Reply to  Chad Young

It’s created several more interesting strategy options for roster construction. Additionally, there’s just a ton of trading that goes on midseason as the protections make you far more able to exchange long-term value for short term.

The other neat tweak we made is that, when we’re calculating contributions for our league’s prize pool, your pay in is the actual money you spend on salary, so you can try to build a team cheaply for $200 or you can use your entire salary cap. Because there are so many more dollars available under the cap, large contracts of underperforming guys are still quite movable.

BDD
12 years ago
Reply to  Chad Young

I like how this quickly became a forum for SSFB. JFC forgot to mention that included in the dollar conversion is a luxury tax. We got pretty technical on a lot of fronts to mold the league to fit our desires. It’s pretty super serious.

YankeeGM
12 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

That has been my only complaint about the Ottoneu format since joining in 2010 offseason. I drafted Trout back before 2011 season and sat on him for a season and a half before starting to realize value. As soon as he started producing for me he got voted off my team. The very next season our league went to arb dollars method, but the point remains that I should get SOME benefit for drafting and holding a player who becomes a superstar. The ‘vote-off’ method is lunacy, and the ‘add arb dollars’ method is better, but still doesn’t give enough reward to patient owners who build their teams with minor league talent.

Having a ‘no add’ period is perfect. This way owners who roster cheap talent that end up breaking out have the advantage that being ‘smart’ SHOULD give them!!

YankeeGM
12 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

if there are ever an6y openings in your league pls let me know!
yankeegm@gmail.com

Boof Bonser
12 years ago

How much would you be willing to pay for Byron Buxton in a FG points league?

tolerate
12 years ago
Reply to  Chad Young

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I have a $16 Kris Bryant and was really torn on whether to keep him or not. In the end I couldn’t bring myself to cut ties.

Clayton
12 years ago

Chad, Do you have a particular strategy when it comes to prospects? How many do you usually have on your roster?

Rainja182
12 years ago

Given that we are now 3 seasons into this. What kind of trends are you noticing this season? What I’m really curious about is, do you see more teams cutting big and restocking via the draft, or do you see owners holding on to the high end talent that is now ‘overpriced’ and piecing together a roster? I’m curious because this season, I somehow have almost 80% more draft dollars than the next closest owner, and in looking at the free agents… there’s a very real possibility I can get the top 3 pitchers and the top 5 hitters. And I’m wondering if this is what’s happening in most leagues, or is this just a fluke situation? 5×5

Nelson S.
12 years ago

Whats the best strategy for not leaving money on the table at the end of a draft?

Rainja182
12 years ago
Reply to  Nelson S.

Don’t be afraid to overbid a few extra $$ on the players you truly want and that will seriously help your squad. Obviously it varies by league, but most drafts are only going to have a dozen or so players that are true squad builders. If you really need a 3B or a SP or whatever, target the guy you really want and don’t be afraid to go big. If you’ve got a ton of spots to fill and a limited budget, you have to be aggressive on potential bargains.

tylersnotes
12 years ago
Reply to  Nelson S.

i left money on the board last year. The benefit in ottoneu is that having some money left over can help you in 2 ways: 1- you have money for free agent bidding and 2- you have the ability to take on money in trades. After the dust settles, guys will become aware of their holes and you can target the more expensive guys in trades, and it won’t matter if they’re overpriced.

The other thing to remember– the guys you’re most likely to keep each year are the value depth pieces. the guys who spent the extra $1 on Matt Carpenter last year to win those auctions gained the most, and also risked the least, compared to the guys who spent the extra $1 on albert pujols or justin verlander. Filling your bench with $1 players is great if they all break right, but filling it with $5 or $8 players will give you plenty of depth to trade from and the guys who break out are still very cheap for next year.

Rainja182
12 years ago
Reply to  tylersnotes

If you’re a mid table team, tylersnotes is right, the low dollar guys are your best bet to exploit value in that scenario. It all really depends on what your current squad is projected for. If you have a real shot at a title and you need absolute production to win, then guys that are ‘sure’ things are the best value for you. If you need big production from several positions just to make a run then value buys are the players you should aggressively target. If there’s no way you have a chance at a title then you want to target prospects and low dollar guys that could provide big value next year or in trades.

kusnider
12 years ago

I just wanted to comment quickly that I appreciate this article and all others. Has really helped my ottoneu experience and think the responses from other owners here have been great!

Trey Baughn
12 years ago

Here’s a spreadsheet you can use to evaluate your Ottoneu roster for 2014:
http://goo.gl/VenZoq

Rainja182
12 years ago
Reply to  Trey Baughn

That is one awesome spreadsheet. Don’t suppose there’s one for 5×5?

Trey Baughn
12 years ago
Reply to  Rainja182

Unfortunately no. I’m pretty committed to the FG Points format but if there’s enough interest I could modify it for 5 x 5

tylersnotes
12 years ago
Reply to  Trey Baughn

This is beautiful and I love it. You should submit this as a community fangraphs post. Or, even better, don’t post it anywhere else and delete this comment so that no one in my league sees it.

Rainja182
12 years ago
Reply to  Trey Baughn

Well, other than myself, I know a few 100 people that would really enjoy something like that for 5×5. It must take a ton of time, so I totally understand there’s not much motivation to invest that much time in a format you don’t play. Any chance on uploading an unlocked sheet that could be edited by a third party? There’s no way I could do as good a job as you did, but I’d still like to try!

YankeeGM
12 years ago

Chad-

Can you post some links to Ottoneu info pages? I use the Average Values page a lot, but are there other resources I’m missing?

THX!!

raiprotur
12 years ago

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