On Being A “Tryhard” and Hoarding Assets

Last week, Brad Johnson talked about being a “tryhard.” Brad described one way of being a “tryhard” as hoarding assets in the draft.

Sheryl decided to roster not one, not two, but FIVE catchers. As a reminder, ottoneu is a two catcher league with a 162 game cap for the position. So you need about 1.5 catchers. A total of $34 was spent on these backstops. She openly shopped her depth during the draft. While it sounds like fun to corner a market, have you ever seen it work? I haven’t.

I don’t doubt that Brad hasn’t seen it work. But just because he hasn’t seen it doesn’t mean it can’t happen. Here’s proof: after the draft, I had spent $34 on 5 catchers.

After a few trades, I added Justin Smoak, Freddy Peralta, Dellin Betances, Steven Matz, and Domingo Santana, and still had Castillo and Gomes for a total of $7 between them.

Believe it or not, this year’s Ottoneu Fantasy Staff League Two draft wasn’t the first time I’ve used the strategy. I’ve been playing fantasy baseball for a long time – since I was a sophomore in college, so 13 years now – and this strategy is one of my most successful. I played in multiple CBS and Yahoo leagues every year for better than a decade, and this strategy got me to the playoffs every single time, including four straight championships in one league.

There are four keys to implementing it well.

  1. Hoard scarce assets.
  2. Know your format.
  3.  Make sure you have one keeper.
  4. Don’t overspend.

Let me explain what I mean.

Hoard Scarce Assets

This might be the most important part of the entire approach. The ideal situation is a draft with a lot of inflation, like an auction draft where everyone is overbidding or a snake draft where sleepers are turning into reaches. When I first started using this strategy, I hoarded up the middle assets, particularly shortstops (it was shallower a decade ago) and starting pitchers. Hoarding those valuable assets meant that teams needed to meet my price for them, which in turn meant that I routinely ran out teams with three or four first-round picks.

That’s why catcher is perfectly suited for a hoarding strategy. This year, catcher is a vast wasteland. Most catchers are, in terms of fantasy value, putrid – and putridity breeds desperation, especially among contenders. For example, Brad’s team in our Ottoneu league lost last year because he got only 2.6 pts/g from his catcher position. In other words, a catcher can be the difference between winning and losing your league. Given how shallow catcher is, having a near-monopoly on the position means you can set your own price for teams to upgrade. That also means that injuries can be devastating – the team in my league that lost Salvador Perez sent me a cheap Freddy Peralta just to get my Francisco Cervelli.

Know Your Format

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There are two places where this strategy isn’t as awesome. First, be careful about using it in auction drafts, because you have a limited budget. In Ottoneu, for example, I’ve tried a hoarding strategy before without success. Why? Because there, I hoarded the wrong position (outfield) and spent too much. Why is catcher different? Because there are twenty catcher lineup spots (even though you only need 162 games, most catchers won’t play 120), and far less than 20 rosterable catchers. That means owners are either leaving points on the table by not getting 162 games out of their catchers, or using backups as their starters. Also, know your league rules, because most leagues require that a team have at least a warm body at every position.

Make Sure You Have One Keeper

In other words, know which hoarded asset you won’t trade. You don’t even have to telegraph that to other owners – simply set that player’s price higher than your other players. For me, that was Welington Castillo, a good hitting catcher everyone forgot about because of his fluky injury-prone 2018; in a contract year, I expect he’ll bounce back in a big way, potentially to top-5 material in such a thin field.

The results will be twofold. First, more obviously, you need somebody to play catcher. And second, it serves to drive up the price further on those players you are willing to move. It also means teams are less likely to trade with someone else who has a surplus instead of you, because supply of available catchers has been cut even further. You’ve bred desperation by limiting available upgrade options, and essentially set your own price for another owner to be able to fill the position.

This also allows for you to use your other catchers in package deals, like this one:

Yes, I brought Gomes back! And why not – he’s a decent backup for Castillo, and gives me two top-twelve catchers for $7. What that means is for Posey, Austin Barnes, Francisco Cervelli, a broken arm in Carlos Martinez, and a guy who I don’t expect to repeat in Patrick Corbin, I brought in exciting young talent (Domingo Santana, Freddy Peralta, Steven Matz), a solid utility bat in Justin Smoak, an elite reliever in Dellin Betances, and a top-end outfielder (Pollock). That’s how well this strategy can work.

Don’t Overspend

It’s also way too easy to take this strategy to an extreme, and end up overbidding or reaching for all the catchers. Remember that you also need to field a team, and you have only so many trading partners. Also, you won’t trade all your excess. The goal is to end up with one or two high-value assets, be they long-term keepers or win-now pieces, which you couldn’t have gotten yourself. Best case, a contender suffers an injury and panics. Worst case, when you start cutting must-own catchers, that means other teams will drop interesting pieces to pick them up, creating opportunities for you to pick up players too good to be on the wire.

In Summary

The goal of hoarding assets is to trade at least some of them later for parts you need elsewhere. And even if some of your leaguemates huff and puff, remember that you only need one owner willing to overspend to make this strategy work.





Sheryl Ring is a litigation attorney and General Counsel at Open Communities, a non-profit legal aid agency in the Chicago suburbs. You can reach her on twitter at @Ring_Sheryl. The opinions expressed here are solely the author's. This post is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended as legal advice.

48 Comments
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sivjosh
7 years ago

Don’t turn this into the Fortnite forums with the “tryhard” stuff. Play the game how you want to play it. The point is to have fun and maybe win.

boxcore
7 years ago
Reply to  sivjosh

Agreed… HATE that term “tryhard” … Of course I am going to “try hard”. Ugh. Glad this hoarding strategy worked for her, though I wouldn’t have the guts to do it with C myself.

Anonymous
7 years ago

“I played in multiple CBS and Yahoo leagues every year for better than a decade, and this strategy got me to the playoffs every single time”

Do you fail to make the playoffs when not implementing this strategy?

Anonymous
7 years ago
Reply to  Sheryl Ring

So you’ve been in (hang on doing math…) 26+ leagues and only missed the playoffs once?

We need you to post more articles on Rotographs!

evo34Member since 2023
7 years ago
Reply to  Sheryl Ring

So despite the fact that this strat has failed every time you’ve tried it in a truly competitive league, you’re boasting about how effective it is?

evo34Member since 2023
7 years ago
Reply to  Anonymous

I’d love to see the quality of these leagues…

HappyFunBallMember since 2019
7 years ago

#1 is the keyest point.

Picking up a random player you don’t need, who you think has slipped a couple of rounds, and you’ll just bench him until you can trade him … that does not consistently work. Just because a player is good doesn’t mean there’s necessarily going to be a good trade market for him.

But truly scarce assets (catchers, steals, etc…) CAN be hoarded such that you control the market.

I would still rather draft a player that I need than draft for trading later.

The Real McNulty
7 years ago
Reply to  HappyFunBall

But if you hoard steals, steals become less valuable. Everyone is then competing for second place. Yes, people will try to trade for steals knowing that they could jump in the standings, but (1) this league already devalued steals at the beginning-so either they all miscalculated or there’s some skepticism of your steals valuation and (2) teams, at best, will only offer a slightly above-market trade for a stolen base guy–knowing that your team has 3-4 more steals guys to trade to the other owners, and knowing so far that their offer was the best (because no other SB trade has been made at that point).

HappyFunBallMember since 2019
7 years ago

What constitute a “scarce asset”will vary from league to league

RonnieDobbs
7 years ago
Reply to  HappyFunBall

The same owners that passed on these players/cats are not going to want them in trades either. I have never seen hoarding players/cats work in a competitive league. In a non-competitive league (that you win every year), you can probably win just by looking at waivers and setting your lineup.

evo34Member since 2023
7 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

This is the most astute comment in the whole page.

AyrahvonMember since 2025
7 years ago

Yes! I was so hoping for this article. Good rebuttal to the first post on this subject. Thanks Sheryl.

mbrieseMember since 2026
7 years ago

Brad seems to think that his strategies are the only valid ones for fantasy (see his “shop your trades” article) – great rebuttal, you rolled the dice and it panned out.

MAC
7 years ago

Poor little Brad. He decided to make his personal problem with his league public and got dunked on so bad it was a war crime.

hipsterdoofus
7 years ago
Reply to  MAC

Sure what it seems like

shirley temple of doomMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  MAC

BOOOOOOOOOOM

RonnieDobbs
7 years ago
Reply to  MAC

This what what FanGraphs has come to…

Brad JohnsonMember
7 years ago

I have to hand it to Sheryl, she definitely came out ahead in these trades. In my experience, diluting the pool of scarce assets makes it temporarily more palatable to roster a very bad player. This serves to depress the negotiating position of the person with a surplus.

In this league, I wound up with $1 Mike Zunino instead of something like a $1 Austin Barnes which was probably Plan A for me. We can debate if Barnes is actually a better play than Zunino, but I definitely would have picked Barnes first. Since Sheryl had so many C, I was more than comfortable digging a couple catchers deeper than originally intended.

The danger of Sheryl’s strategy was that in a fairly shallow 12 team league like ottoneu, all owners could easily decide against engaging in talks. Then her roster winds up inefficient and she either has to work around that or take a loss. This is the only time I’ve seen anybody attempt this strategy and not take a massive loss in the subsequent trades. In every case, the owners were hoarding a scarce asset.

I guess my point is this: try it if you want, but be careful. And stubborn. I’m sure it helps to be stubborn.

ajb3313
7 years ago
Reply to  Brad Johnson

You seem to have cornered the market on stubbornness much the same way Sheryl cornered the market on catchers.

hipsterdoofus
7 years ago
Reply to  Brad Johnson

“The danger of Sheryl’s strategy was that in a fairly shallow 12 team league like ottoneu, all owners could easily decide against engaging in talks.”

So, the danger of her strategy is the league colluding against her?

The Real McNulty
7 years ago
Reply to  hipsterdoofus

I think the emphasis was on shallow, not 12. I think he meant teams would be ok with whatever catcher was available rather than paying a higher price for one of the stashed catchers.

evo34Member since 2023
7 years ago
Reply to  hipsterdoofus

You don’t need to collude to know that a trade will help another very good team more than it will help yours. Shrewd owners will usually force any owner to be stuck with his/her surplus and wait until a few ultimately get dropped. The fact that teams are so willing to take her Cs off her hands suggests to me — rightly or wrongly — they don’t really fear her winning this season.

AlexTheGreat
7 years ago
Reply to  Brad Johnson

I disagreed with you before but you’re correct here. The risk is extremely high and the benefit is marginal.

shirley temple of doomMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Brad Johnson

You are having a rough week, my dude.

Dan25
7 years ago
Reply to  Brad Johnson

So you (as a competing manager) spent the same amount of money as you planned to previously, but settled on a lessor player (whether it ends up being a lessor player can be argued all day, but by your own evaluation it’s a lessor player). This is a feature of Sheryls strategy not a bug isn’t it?

Maybe all 10 other managers will settle too and that is a real risk. But she doesn’t need all 10 to decide to look to trade, only 2 or 3.

It could also come down to who blinks first. “temporarily more palatable to roster a very bad player” – how long is “temporarily” before you come around to thinking about a trade?

Bill
7 years ago
Reply to  Brad Johnson

“The danger of Sheryl’s strategy was that in a fairly shallow 12 team league like ottoneu, all owners could easily decide against engaging in talks. Then her roster winds up inefficient and she either has to work around that or take a loss”.
Not true in ottoneu she could drop them and get half her $$ back. If some one were to claim them, she would have all her $$ back. Having $$ after the auction is good, as you would have more $$ to buy the hot free agent during the first part of the year. You in theory would lose nothing. Not a bad strategy, might try it.

The Real McNulty
7 years ago

“Hoarding those valuable assets meant that teams needed to meet my price for them, which in turn meant that I routinely ran out teams with three or four first-round picks.”

Can you expand on this? You are saying that you drafted extra SS and SP in leagues 10 years ago and got first round players back?

Do you think this is actionable advice? I believe that hoarding can pay off for small (but worthwhile) gains, but I don’t think this extreme of an anecdote is realistic in 99.9% of leagues.

hebrewMember since 2016
7 years ago

I’m with you here. The general sentiment she’s sharing is sound, but this anecdote felt very hyperbolic.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
7 years ago

Don’t pick a fight with a lawyer, Brad:)

RotoholicMember since 2016
7 years ago

The problem with saying “don’t overspend” is that by definition, you have to overspend in the first place – relative to what the market has determined – in order to be the highest bidder. Why would other teams want to pay $X+1 for a guy who, very recently, they didn’t even want to pay $X for? The fact that Chance Sisco will probably be terrible in April will not be new information to his owner. And you’re plugging up your roster with useless players until the point comes that somebody is willing to overpay relative to what they willing on draft day, and they also have matching surplus to fit your own team’s needs. It’s a high risk, low reward investment. If you did the same thing in a Yahoo league 4 years in a row, and won the championship all 4 times, I would really question the type of people you’re playing with.

Travis LMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  Rotoholic

The strategy isn’t that the assets are undervalued currently; it’s that by driving the supply available for other teams down, the market is inaccurately assessing their options and will discover that later.

Markets can generally be fairly efficient, but that happens over time.

Curacao LL
7 years ago

“Worst case, when you start cutting must-own catchers, that means other teams will drop interesting pieces to pick them up, creating opportunities for you to pick up players too good to be on the wire.”

…but you’re not the only one competing here.

” I played in multiple CBS and Yahoo leagues every year for better than a decade, and this strategy got me to the playoffs every single time, including four straight championships in one league.”

Cool story. Even if it’s true, you might be geting to the playoffs in spite of the strategy, not because of it.

HappyFunBallMember since 2019
7 years ago
Reply to  Curacao LL

Yeah. There’s no guarantee that cut players will be “interesting pieces”. They will very likely be non-rosterable dross that the previous owner was simply higher on than most.

gb1877
7 years ago
Reply to  Curacao LL

Well, mostly everyone would be successful in spite of their strategy. Strategy gets to be a highly debated thing in fantasy sports but ultimately you’re doing what gets you the most value/points/best players in a non-boring way. Some people work the draft room better, others have an ability to work the trade market better than others, etc. Some like to be the best at projecting stats and just straight value pick.

Hoarding catchers wouldn’t be my ideal or most fun way to extract value but if she’s able to generate positive value from it then clearly it’s something that can work. I agree with Sheryl, format and league matter. I’ve seen people try to hoard closers to no avail, but I’ve seen excess speed traded for a premium in the league I play in. It’s all relative.

Sellys
7 years ago

What could have bought instead of all those catchers? Would be nice to see this topic revisited at the end of the year and see if the trades actually ended up beneficial. Right now it’s all guess work.

wubbie075
7 years ago
Reply to  Sellys

I agree. IMO the most pertinent comparison to gauge of the effectiveness of the strategy is not the value of who she got in trades vs the value of the catchers she traded, but the value of who she got in the trades vs that of the players she did not draft while she was collecting surplus catchers. While she may have come out ahead in these deals, I am really curious who she passed up.

Still, it does seem to have worked out better than some of us thought it would.

Justin CMember since 2020
7 years ago

Isn’t the headliner in that package trade an $11 Patrick Corbin?

carterMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Justin C

Ya I’m a bit confused tbh. I don’t play w.e league it is she is in, however $11 corbin?

jpgMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Justin C

Couldn’t agree more. An $11 Corbin is a pretty awesome asset. Not sure why she is bearish on a repeat. His ERA was a solid 3.15 and he actually underperformed his FIP by half run and his BABIP allowed wasn’t abnormally low nor was his strand rate abnormally high. And he’s going to a better park on a what figures to be a much better team. I’m actually targeting Corbin as a possible ace since I’m picking fourth and the deGrom/Scherzer/Sale/Kluber foursome will be off the board before my second rounder.

carterMember since 2020
7 years ago

Posey was $20??

Charlie HustleMember since 2016
7 years ago

I enjoyed both of these articles. If I am being honest with myself, I have to admit that I am probably a ‘tryhard’ and that I am neither skilled nor motivated enough to actually ever attempt hoarding catchers. However, I do believe that I am alert enough to identify that something might be up if someone at the table drafts a third catcher. In this scenario, how do I, as a ‘tryhand’ respond?

A. Assume the potential hoarder is simply not paying attention or drunk.
B. Concede that I have been outmaneuvered and prepare to get fleeced in a trade.
C. Draft the next catcher.
D. Aggressively price enforce the prospective hoarder and anyone else bidding on catchers
E. Join in the fun and start hoarding catchers myself

I will take my answer off-line. Thanks!

moeproblems
7 years ago

Excellent piece, Sheryl. Thank you for sharing. Made me think about the game in a new way – this is definitely a compelling strategy in active leagues with good owners.

One question – do you feel this strategy has more (or less) utility in shallow vs deep leagues?

Thanks for your time!

evo34Member since 2023
7 years ago

“I’ve never missed the playoffs.”

LOL. That’s the first credibility red flag. (are any of these league public so we can see the quality of competition?) The second issue is that hoarding anything only works consistently well when it’s a very deep league and/or other owners are passive on the waiver wire. In a competitive, shallow league, all it takes is three or four players to emerge (2016’s Realmuto or Ramos for example) and you’re left holding the bag.

Beyond the fact that your holdings can be diluted in value quickly, the opportunity cost of drafting and hoarding catchers is massive. While everyone else is scooping up free agents (incl. emerging catchers), you’re left with a roster full of Cs that you can’t drop or else risk losing your perceived hoarding edge.

As for planning to trade away your depth immediately, I will never put myself in position where I *need* make trades to have a any shot. So many things can go wrong with that strat.

bceagles182
7 years ago

I’d say the #1 must in order for this strategy to work is to have an extremely active league. where you can make a lot of trades to even out your imbalance. Even so, if you’ve drowned the pool, you need to make trades to get rid of catcher more than others need to trade with you, so you’re putting yourself in a bad negotiation posture. You’ve created an advantage for yourself at one position at the expense of a disadvantage at many positions. Meanwhile, the rest of the league doesn’t really need to trade with you because they’re already on an even catcher playing field with each other. It’s like trying to win a roto league by loading up solely on steals. You’d kill everyone in steals but that surplus over second place is useless. Everyone else would happily split a distant second place in the category while taking an advantage over you in all other categories.