The Cruel Power of Suggestion

Last week, Howard Bender wrote about trade bullies, which kicked up some good discussion in the comments. Whereas Bender was categorically against trade bullying, I’m all for manipulating your rivals. After all, they’re “rivals.” They exist solely to be defeated through any means necessary. They’re also probably your friends, family, and co-workers, so try not to get carried away.

That said, I rarely bully in trades and have very little respect for the tactic. It’s too crass. There’s no seductive subtly to bullying; I don’t get to cackle sinisterly while I watch my foe fall apart all on his own. It’s like using a bulldozer to knock down the Great Wall. I guess that could be fun, but I’d find so much more pleasure in convincing the Chinese to take it down at great personal expense. Or better yet, pay me to do it for them.

One of my favorite fantasy pastimes is to plant bad ideas and watch them sprout. I learned this trick quite by accident. I would spend weeks trying to pry a target away from a rival, even making offers that were disadvantageous to me. Inevitably, the player I was targeting would go from untouchable to trade bait. The downside was that I never seemed to be the one to win the player. Another owner would always benefit from my hard work despite that I usually had an obviously superior offer available.

I spent about two years trying to figure out how I could get that previously untouchable player to come my way, but I never did solve the formula. Maybe it’s some kind of shoot-the-messenger effect. I realized that although I wasn’t solving my goals, my rivals were de-optimizing their rosters. Now I think of the tactic as overcoming the endowment effect, and it’s really quite simple to execute. Just be prepared to live with the consequences.

I reserve this tactic for my closest competition for two reasons. It’s pretty damned evil. If you consider testing the evil waters, I strongly recommend offering a lot of honest, heartfelt advice to balance your malicious deeds. The second reason is that the end result of your meddling is unpredictable. You don’t want a bad team to fuel one of your closest competitors, but if your top rivals are making the bad moves, you’re more likely to benefit indirectly.

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As I’ve hinted, it’s surprisingly easy to coax people into making bad decisions. Most rosters have a couple lynch pins – players who form the backbone of the owner’s strategy. If you remove a lynch pin or two, the rest of the roster strategy becomes less coherent, leading to sub-optimal outcomes or replacement level players in starting positions.

Usually an owner knows on some level that a certain player and his expected performance is necessary for success. So when you offer Yu Darvish and Addison Reed for Chris Davis, the other owner will say no. That owner probably sees Davis as being worth 8 points to his team in runs, home runs, and RBI. Where else will they find 40 HR and 110 RBI when the waiver wire has Juan Francisco as the top alternative?

Follow up the rejected offer by indicating that you might be able to do better, but it will require careful consideration. Request them to give you idea of what it would take to make something happen. Usually that’s when a ridiculous counteroffer is sent. Poo-poo the counteroffer because you both know it’s unreasonable. Bandy a few ideas back and forth with the supposed intent of reaching an equitable agreement, but at this point you’re just slowly cutting off negotiations. More often than not, you’ll see the player in question shopped around the league until a deal is reached – sometimes for a lot less than your original offer.

One thing to keep in mind, don’t use your site’s embedded trade wizard for this conversation. This is to be done by email, text, phone, or any other medium that cannot be officially accepted. You probably don’t actually want your offers to be accepted. You’ll be making high-ball offers, which may be a term I just now coined.

Why does this seem to work? Well I have no actual proof that it does, but it’s a strange coincidence to see so many “untouchable” players dealt shortly after my meddling. My guess is that when a person is presented with a viable, beneficial offer, it takes days or weeks for them to overcome the endowment effect. Once they do, that player goes from untouchable to trade asset number one. Your offer is gone, but there are 10 other owners with possible offers. I think we also see this regularly in real baseball where rumors of a trade or a coach being fired come before any indication that it’s been thought about by management. The much dreaded “stamp of approval” may be a good example. I honestly believe that the question itself builds more momentum towards a coach being fired than any internal talks.

Final warning: balance your karma. You can’t mess with anyone if they all think you’re a jerk. You’ll see the best results if you’re generally trustworthy. Personally, I’m hoping that my leaguemates who read this will take me at face value when I say I am usually being earnest when I start a negotiation.





You can follow me on twitter @BaseballATeam

12 Comments
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d_iMember since 2016
12 years ago

I don’t know if the endowment effect is stronger in my league than others but it sure feels like it. 4 of the 20 are completely unresponsive. 2 are just against trading. 7 or so are just in love with their players regardless of their position in the standings or need. That leaves about a third that might be a potential fit, but with the salary cap and such, it’s extremely difficult to work out trades in our league. It drives me crazy as someone who is constantly evaluating and looking for ways to improve my team.

It’s a very competitive, deep, league which everyone does lots of research for, but we usually only have about 2 meaningful trades/season. I almost wish trades would just be banned because I spend way too much time drawing them up relative to the chances something gets worked out.

Brian S
12 years ago

Solution: Convince another manager to try and trade for said “untouchable” player. I’m Team A, I want untouchable player from Team B. So I find patsy owner of Team C, let him know how much HE needs player for his team, coerce him into opening negotiations with Team B, then reap reward of discounted price when Team B owner shops player around league.

Doubly evil?

Cody
12 years ago
Reply to  Brian S

In my opinion, this borders on collusion. You are specifically enlisting another team, through the sharing of trade secrets (double meaning intended), to help you profit. The fact that the other team is unknowingly doing so is almost irrelevant.

Sam
12 years ago

To the above, I definitely think it’s collusion, but of the variety that’s almost impossible to prove. The only way it’s not is if the other team doesn’t know they are being used. Then they are just getting “House of Cards’d”.

As for the article, WOW, what a great response article to last weeks bully peice. I definitely think I’m more this type and fall short of bullying. Fantasy baseball is a mix of cut throat business valuation of stocks and assets (or players) and manipulative politics, especially in dynasty leagues (which mine is).

My main strategy is to ” Never be in a position where I HAVE TO make a move.” It sucks all the power out of your negotiating position (and when I do need to make move, to fill a gaping hole or whatever) I deny till I die and tell the whole world that I love my current solution while still solving for the solution. I’ve also done things, in a long term league, to dissuade players from trying to take advantage. For example, I went a whole season w/o a 3B (bulked up in other areas to cover) just to show that I had patience to outlast the market. It actually ended up helping me as my main rivals spent a lot of capital and bench space on 3B they never needed, just to keep them from me. They also precluded themselves from being able to bid on players they actually needed later on. Obv, not a strategy you want to happen, but it does from time to time and this one, albeit patience requiring, solution.

Andrew A
12 years ago
Reply to  Sam

I don’t think it’s collusion (even if both know). It’s basically, if you, Team A can get Player X from Team B, I’ll give you Y and Z.

Team B has no right to prevent a player from ending up on my trade. In fact, if he told Team A that he couldn’t trade X to me, THAT would be collusion.

If both teams are improving their teams, that’s just good trading.

Sam
12 years ago

Also, never take a 2-1 deal (where you get 2) but offer lots of them. In most cases, having the more elite player is better than having more players that equal the elite player in the aggregate. Concentrate stats in your lineup whenever possible to the highest degree. It sounds obvious, but paying 3-1 for an elite player like cargo, even if the other 3 equal much more than cargos singular output is worth it.

What are others thoughts?

Ruki Motomiya
12 years ago
Reply to  Sam

Depends some on depth too: If you are, say, being carried by CarGo, it may be better to 2-for-1 him, which opens up further trade possibilities and lessens the chance of CarGo going down (Or any other player, often injured or not) and ruining the team, since even if one of the two go down you don’t lose all production.

Diamond
12 years ago

You need to attend one of my seminars.

http://razzball.com/category/contributors/diamond/

Bucksbirds
12 years ago

I consider myself a trade bully and proudly so, although not particularly successfully. I definitely agree that 1 elite player trumps 2 or 3 solid players, and obviously hitters trump pitchers. I also think hot rookies are ideal trade bait.

zdog
12 years ago

Love this piece, and even more so that I relish and succeed at this. especially love the tradeing of “HOT ROOKIES”.Have won 2/3 years in a dynasty format, because so many of my competitors are in love with the notion that” my team looks good on paper” false security, that they are always playing for next year. TAKE THE BULL BY THE HORNS, TOMMORROW MAY NEVER COME.

Bill
12 years ago

interesting. This year everyone has been after Bogaerts and profar in my leagues, and while I received multiple offers I feel no such inclination to trade them after these offers, zero.

On the other hand, one manager in particular was after braun last year and I finally dealt him for T. Walker, Profar and Buxton. I realize Braun is a top player but thought the steals were bound to decline, lineup wasn’t as good, etc. and it made a good time to trade him, so maybe there is something to this, although I didn’t really shop braun, just got an offer I couldn’t pass up.