Ian Kinsler & Second Base Value
As you have probably seen, we here at RotoGraphs have been doing a very early slow mock draft over the last few weeks. So far I’ve learned two things:
- Second base gets really, really ugly after the first seven or so players come off the board.
- There’s more question about Ian Kinsler’s value than you’d think.
There’s little argument that Robinson Cano is the consensus top second baseman available, and Kinsler, Dustin Pedroia, Brandon Phillips, Jason Kipnis, Ben Zobrist, & Aaron Hill are generally seen as the cream of the remaining crop, in various orders. But once you get past that group, it thins out quickly. Do you want to be the one hoping Marco Scutaro can repeat his shocking late-season resurgence, or seeing if Rickie Weeks can rebound from an atrocious campaign, or praying Dan Uggla can find his lost power, as I was?
That’s why it’s more important than ever in 2013 that you manage to get yourself a decent second baseman while one is available, especially in twelve-team or AL/NL-only leagues. With that in mind, it’s interesting to see how Kinsler as viewed at this early stage in the winter. In our draft, Jack Moore picked him up as the 36th overall pick and third second baseman taken behind Cano & Pedroia, which sounds about right to me. That’s similar to ESPN’s Tristan Cockcroft, who has Kinsler as the 41st overall player and third second baseman behind the same duo. Yet in one ‘expert draft’ I’ve seen, he was a top-ten pick overall; in another, he went ahead of Pedroia (but behind Brandon Phillips), and over at MockDraftCentral, he’s been the #2 second baseman behind Cano and a top-ten pick overall in drafts over the last few days.
It seems that not everyone is sure what to expect from Kinsler, who is coming off a career-worst 2012 as he heads into his age-31 season. For years, Kinsler has been one of the best hitting second basemen in the game, but as his wOBA dropped from .364 to .327 last year, he fell to seventh – behind Neil Walker and just barely ahead of Uggla. That’s in no small part due to his ongoing troubles away from Texas – on the road, his poor .274 wOBA was one of the eight worst in the American League – though that’s been a career-long concern for him.
In fact, it seems even the Rangers beat writers don’t have a good handle on it. In early December, the Star-Telegram, in an article about a possible Kinsler move to first base, suggested that injury may have been the cause:
Kinsler said his right ankle, which he had surgery on last off-season, started bothering him during the season and didn’t improve until July, which might have factored into his struggles.
Yet that doesn’t align with the facts, given that Kinsler had a solid first half (.279/.341/.442) and then declined badly in the second half (.229/.308/.399) as the Rangers blew the division title to Oakland. Though Kinsler’s BB% dropped by more than four full points, a troubling fall that clearly affected his OBP, there was little in his swing profile to explain the poor second half, and so it’s easy to remain optimistic that his 2013 will be more like the Kinsler we’ve come to know.
It’s that optimism that makes me think I probably shouldn’t be so hard on Kinsler, because even a down year for him was still quite good, since he did come within a homer of a fourth 20/20 season. Given his 2012, I don’t know that I could really talk myself into making him a top-ten pick, but with the state of second base being what it is, that does give him somewhat of a boost in my book. Enough to make me wish I had taken him and not reached too early for Joe Mauer, anyway.
Mike Petriello used to write here, and now he does not. Find him at @mike_petriello or MLB.com.
Not to keep the meme going but might I suggest a hedge for Kinsler. Last year as mentioned Kinsler hit .293/.361/.524 at home with 15HR and 12SB but only .220/.290/.321 with only 5HR and 9SB on the road. If you draft Kinsler take a late round flyer on either Josh Rutledge or Chris Nelson.
Rutledge hit .287/.327/.490 at home and .261/.283/.448 on the road but may be in line for a big breakout. As Rutledge is also SS eligible he may get grabbed before you are willing to risk a pick on him.
Nelson is 2B/3B eligible he hit .347/.411/.500 at home and .257/.292/.417 on the road. Nelson hit .345/.379/.503 over the final two months but an astronomical .425BABIP says that is unlikely to happen again.
So play Kinsler at Home and keep an eye on Rockies IF situation as they will have 5-10 players with 1B/SS/2B/3B eligibility whoever emerges as the starter will be a nice contributor in at least 50% of their games
I’ve never seen the solution to a home/road split be grabbing another player with a home/road split. The answer to a problem is usually not another problem.
Especially since other teams wouldn’t have an exactly corresponding home/road schedule to Texas.
No, what you’d need is for the Rangers to platoon Kinsler and Profar based on location. Same as a strict handedness platoon.
Taking Kinsler in the first round is masochistic.
As a Kinsler owner, I hope you are right on a small rebound. Hopefully the losses of Hamilton and Young don’t eat into his runs total much… I kid I kid.
I have kinsler in one of my leagues. I’d rather have cano, pedroia, or zobrist (with an eye also on Kipnis) but I still think he’s a top 5 2B at the games thinnest position.
espinosa and kipinis are the same age and same tools…where is espinosa
About fifty strike outs away. He does not have the same contact tool.
Jose Altuve? .290 30SBs
Agreed. Why no love for my main man Altuve?
I got him on the very cheap in my draft last year, plugged him in for basically the whole season and won the championship.
He hits for average, provides speed, and scores runs in a putrid lineup. He’s young and has hit throughout the minors so there is reason to believe he can and will improve.
I like Atuve, and it’s probably unfair to lump him in with the dreck of the lower tier. But his SB-CS is kind of poor, and he offers little power, plus that team is going to just be historically bad. It’s enough to weigh him down somewhat.
Also agree. I think most owners will gladly take .290-30 at 2B in all but the shallowest of leagues.
I also predict .290-30 – extremely valuable at 2B
That second paragraph has me a bit offput. There are several 2B between Ben Zobrist and Marco Scutaro (I use Zobrist because Hill’s value is probably more unclear than Kinsler’s). Those being the aforementioned Uggla, Hill, Weeks, Espinosa, Walker, and Altuve along with Utley and possibly Kendrick.
OT but no idea why the Rangers don’t trade Kinsler and keep Profar. Kinsler could definitely bring in an OF with pop that they apparently so badly want to overpay for. Beltre-Andrus-Profar-Olt would be a dynamite infield but the Rangers are stuck playing the 00’s game of wanting declining years of stars instead of bringing up stars and getting the best & cheapest years from them.
I’m buying Weeks in 2013. His counting stats were ok for a 2B, and while his season average and OBP were pretty awful, he was essentially a .250 hitter from mid May onward. If he can do .250/.350 with 20HR and 15SB I’m fine with him 80 picks after Kinsler.
2nd base is like SS in 12 leagues given the non significant differences in the ample number of players at the mid range of talent… If you don’t get the top few good ones… You are better served bottom feeding on the hot-at-the-time players at that position – who can be fished out of the puddle all year at any time …Use’m up and toss’m back is the way to play it… You will end up with better numbers that way in the long run due to maximizing GPs and therefore ABs – where the numbers really come from.. Even BA will be OK here (not great just OK)… And you may along the way find a keeper too
These 2 positions (and catcher too for that matter) are better left to the very end of the draft if you miss your targeted stud at the begining IMO… They are hugely interchangeable in 12 team play… Better off making sure you have quality pitching across the board than these 3 positions… This is just my take on the MI/C
No love for Daniel Murphy? No wow, but does enough (and consistently) to be lumped with Kipnis, at least.
Kipnis is two years younger, had 31 steals and 14 homers.
Murph is not 2 years younger, had 10 steals and 6 homers.
I’m not seeing it, really.
Murphy is the exact waiver fodder that T Moore is referring to above.
Murphy gives you AVG and nothing else – no power, speed or counting stats
I picked up something interesting on Kinsler last year. Here are his AVG/BABIP/HRs/FB%/LD% beginning in 2007:
2007 .263/.279/20/45%/19%
2008 .319/.334/18/43%/24%
2009 .253/.241/31/54%/15%
2010 .286/.313/9/41%/18%
2011 .255/.243/32/47%/17%
2012 .256/.270/19/42%/20%
He was in a pattern where in alternating years he bounced back and forth from being an extreme fly ball guy with low BABIP and power to more of a line drive guy who hit for a better average and sacrificed some of the power. You got one or the other. Last year you got the LD guy but something happened. He dropped the fly ball rate and upped the line drive rate but the BABIP and the average did not follow. Could be just bad luck year or could be health issues took away a step or had him hitting line drives but with less authority.
What will be interesting to see is whether swing for the fences Kinsler comes back this year. I am guessing he’ll hit lower in the line up and provide some right handed power. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get back to the 25+ HR range again but hit perhaps .255 or even less.
Keep an eye on Matt Carpenter during spring training. The Cardinals will give him a chance to play at second. If he sticks, he could provide good value for very little cost.
So would this mean that you’d be more likely to keep a 2B that is valued at a price that’s pretty close to draft day value, like Zobrist or Phillips? I have Zobrist for $17 in a 10 team H2H league with 5 keepers. I’m between him, Jay Bruce ($24), Cole Hamels ($21) and Max Scherzer ($6) for my last keeper.
Zobrist’s positional eligibility at both 2B and SS is really appealing to me, but the potential value from Scherzer could also be huge. I’m thinking I could get Bruce and Hamels back for similar prices, or other players of similar talent level. Second base realy does look like a wasteland after those top guys. Decisions, decisions…
If you want my two cents, keep Zobrist over Scherzer. Max is a high variance asset, so in a 10 team league, he’s likely to give you between $15 and negative $10 of value. Unless your league uses something like 12-15 pitchers, you should be able to replicate that expect output at zero cost. Guys like RA Dickey and Jason Hammel were freely available in league of that size last season.
Of course, it’s all well and good to say “accurately predict the next breakout pitching season, which by the way will also rely on luck.” But in a 10 team league, I’d be hesitant to pay $6 for Scherzer. I’d rather use those $6 to upgrade from McCutchen to Braun.
The idea of Scherzer being a guy easily replaceable with a guy off waivers is one I don’t agree with
Thanks for the input. I know hitting is getting more and more scarce, while good pitching seems to be more and more available. I think that both players have really good reasons to keep them, but I think I’ll have to keep Zobrist. That 2b/ss eligibility is just too much to overlook, when both positions are such a wasteland. And the fact that so much pitching is available.
Ugh I will miss having Scherzer, because I bet I won’t be willing to pay his draft price.
Despite the disappointing 2012, he was ranked as 3rd 2B with $18 value in your series of articles. His 924/772 LHP/RHP OPS is almost as much as his home/away split. What really made it tough owning Kinsler last yr was only 6 SB in 9 attempts in 2nd half. Texas as a team stopped running in the 2nd half.
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