How Much is Too Much?

The best part of dynasty leagues is that trade behavior can mimic real baseball. When you’re in a deep 20 team format, the league splits into contenders and rebuilders. The prices for win-now talent and top prospects often mirror what we observe in reality. It’s fun.

Over the weekend, a buddy of mine asked me about a trade proposal he received in his dynasty league. He covets Nolan Arenado (who doesn’t), and a rival finally made an offer – Arenado and Dallas Keuchel for Andrew Benintendi, Miguel Sano, Rafael Devers, Josh Bell, and a 2018 draft pick.

That’s a hell of an ask. What would the Rockies want if somebody came to them and said “I simply must have Arenado?” Not those four specific players (they play for different teams, duh) but probably four similarly talented prospects.

The offer highlights the advantage of owning elite assets like Arenado. The soon-to-be 26-year-old Coors slugger has plenty of future upside. There’s a very real chance he’ll outperform that entire package over the next five seasons. And since his value is condensed into one roster spot, it’s possible my friend would be better positioned to win this season with Arenado than the bundle of shiny widgets.

Of course, it’s the future seasons that throw a real wrench into the equation. While none of these players are likely to ever match Arenado’s output, this volume of young, core quality depth is hard to discard. Even ignoring the scenarios where something unexpected happens to Arenado, any one of the four players has enough raw talent to reach a superstar ceiling. Betting on any one specific name to produce near Arenado is a fools game. Betting on four of them at once starts looking a lot more reasonable.

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed.
We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member.
1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other.
2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off.
3. Dark mode and Classic mode!
4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them.
5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects.
6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.)
7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only.
8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO.
9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members.
10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features!
We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it.

This is a situation that lends itself to falling apart. On the one hand, we have an owner who wants to extract a ransom for his elite asset. On the other hand, we have an owner with multiple elite prospects who wants to aggregate talent. How many prospects is too many?

My recommendation was to decline the offer and counter with Benintendi OR Sano, Bell, and the pick for just Arenado. While that probably isn’t enough to acquire him, it’s necessary to reset expectations. Speaking for myself, I make these sorts of offers when I see a desirable target. I can totally picture this thought process…

“Ooh, Benintendi is a good starting point for Arenado, but he’s not enough by himself. And I need a third baseman so I’ll ask for Sano. And Bell is interesting as a throw in. And why not Devers too, he’s just a prospect. Annnd a pick too.”

In this case, Benintendi and Sano was my target return for a fair swap. Note, I’m not necessarily willing to settle for “fair.” The rest were cheekily added to test just how much extra future talent I could extract. However, the way this negotiation ends will affect where it picks up in the future. These massive blockbusters have a habit of lingering for months or even years.

Jumping into my buddy’s shoes, my preference would be to walk the fine line between developing talent and contending. The Dodgers, Cubs, Astros, and Red Sox are doing it, and they look like dynasties in the making. While it’ll be harder to win right now with Sano than Arenado, I trust my managerial skills to squeeze some extra juice out of the roster.

While it’s very important to aggregate talent in the form of players like Arenado, my mantra is to build depth then aggregate. Only when I have more depth than I can possibly play do I pivot to overpaying for stars.





You can follow me on twitter @BaseballATeam

34 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
hearthebeard
9 years ago

I’m joining an interesting league this year, and need some help evaluating dynasty value. It’s a 12 team league, but each team only gets 2 dynasty keepers. Interestingly, for this inaugural year, those dynasty keepers will be auctioned off in the regular auction. Players beyond your two dynasty keepers may be kept, but at an increasing auction value each year. Dynasty Keepers are $0 forever unless untagged, and then they return to draft the following season. Is there any reason for me not to simply throw whatever it takes at Trout + Arenado/Harper/Correa/Altuve/Betts? I’m only spending this years auction money on future value. I don’t want to be bad this year, but it looks like the best move to blow the budget if necessary. Thoughts?

OTMHeartBBCMember since 2019
9 years ago
Reply to  hearthebeard

this is a stupid setup but yes

AlexTheGreat
9 years ago
Reply to  hearthebeard

Most dynasty leagues fail during the first year. So I don’t agree with immediately tanking.

Backdoor SliderMember since 2025
9 years ago

Brad,
When you gave a recommendation to your friend, did you remind him that you have a habit of throwing out bad offers that no one else agrees with regarding your valuation, and risks losing this trade partner for low-balling? Or nah?

jrubyMember since 2016
9 years ago

Did you just get done swimming in the ocean? Cause you so SALTY dude

Backdoor SliderMember since 2025
9 years ago
Reply to  Brad Johnson

No, I’ve read other articles from you. It’s come up more than once. The idea that someone doesn’t have the time to counter back and forth from low-ball offers isn’t rational is silly. Even if they’re NOT rational, cutting off potential partners at all is a bad move. Quite possible the other owner simply moves on to another target, and your friend loses out on Arenado.
To this trade, getting Arenado for that package is highway robbery. A top 5 bat who is only 26 and plays half his games in Coors? The package, while full of strong prospects, is one you might imagine for a 29 or 30 year-old Miggy or Donaldson. Arenado is worth AT LEAST that much, and insulting another owner’s intelligence in the name of “gamesmanship” is never a strong move.

gbaked
9 years ago

Nothing annoys me more then someone dropping out of a trade discussion for low-balling without countering.

Why would I send a perfect trade right away. I want you to decline the first deal I propose. That is the point. Then you look at what I said and we go back and forth until we are both happy. Maybe we meet at that sweet spot and maybe we don’t.

Sometimes I swear fantasy baseball owners have never heard of negotiating.

ShaneMember since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  gbaked

I agree that there should be some negotiations in trades, but it is also annoying when you get a ridiculously low offer and the other side expects you to do the work to get a deal done.

If I get an absurd lowball offer, it is not worth my time to figure out what it is worth to get you the player you want.

The Real McNulty
9 years ago
Reply to  Shane

And these people probably think they are “anchoring”. No, they’re being douchebags

kenai kings
9 years ago

Yipes! His friend surely knew who he was talking to. Not certain you can be a judge.

alang3131982Member since 2016
9 years ago

I’m new to Ottoneu (taking over a team in 4×4 standard). Cant decide what to do with a $19 Odor. My team is absolutely terrible…

I’m legit looking at keeping a $21 Lucroy, $17 Ian Desmond, $3 Didi, $8 Eduardo Rodriguez and $5 Raisel Iglasias….total…

alang3131982Member since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  Brad Johnson

Thanks brad – my valuations all have this as about dead on value – some other projections are split (some have him low/some high). It’s the OBP being 1/4 of value that gets to me. Hard to make up for what i think will be a miserable OBP and a decline in SLG.

Instead of Odor, would you rather roll the dice on one or more of: JUpton ($29), Sano ($27), Rendon ($19)?

Ryan BrockMember since 2016
9 years ago

Asking for too much is a good way to shut down negotiations before they even start, though.

Ryan BrockMember since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  Brad Johnson

For sure – there is a limit, I don’t think you’re necessarily near it here. A better example would be when a friend offered me his Trumbo for my Benintendi in a keeper league, and I laughed in his face… lol

Bill
9 years ago
Reply to  Ryan Brock

Nice move, LOL does not stimulates trade discussion, it kills it. Everyone values players differently. He probably thought it was close and your LOL kills any future talk.

kenai kings
9 years ago

My preferance. Quality out bids quantity. As Brad says I believe, manage your roster and find the depth through FA and minor trades.

Jim Melichar
9 years ago

I had a similar offer in a dynasty league this year to acquire Mike Trout. Benintendi, Meadows, Duffy and Groome. Made the same type of counter you recommended and removed Groome. I ended up needing to give all four but I was willing to do so in the end.

Jim Melichar
9 years ago
Reply to  Brad Johnson

With the assumption that the SBs don’t go away, agreed. Arenado has him in R+RBI and I wouldn’t expect that to change and this was in an AVG not OBP league (yeah, I know…)

abailey
9 years ago
Reply to  Jim Melichar

Without knowing the full context of your league, that seems like a super light haul for Trout.

Jim Melichar
9 years ago
Reply to  abailey

There’s a bunch of contract stuff in play. Trout is currently 9% of my total salary cap (25 players, start 9 hitters, 9 pitchers), but he doubles to 18% of total budget next year. All players going the other way are 2% or less and the minor league players are keepable in a separate minor league (10) roster.

It’s a full dynasty league, with salary escalators to double players contracts every three years.

cmi0222
9 years ago

Maybe not controversial, but is odor plus wil Myers for votto in a keeper league (no limit on years you can keep) that counts walks and hits paying too much?