Elite, Non-Closers in the 22nd Round
The FanGraphs slow mock is complete – huzzah! While I did not participate, I did occasionally peek in to observe. The 22nd round struck me as curious. Four non-closing relievers were drafted in the round including three names that could have been picked ahead of David Robertson (late seventh round) if they had a closers gig. Let’s take at the value to be had late in the draft.
The elephant in the room is Carlos Martinez, who is listed as a reliever but will probably start. Mike Podhorzer recently covered Martinez, noting a drastic platoon problem. Martinez has a fantastic repertoire per our early attempts to grade such things, but he needs to solve left-handed hitters. Until then, he profiles as a mediocre, high-ceiling starter or a ROOGY.
The first true reliever off the board in the round was Ken Giles. The 24-year-old fireballer dominated opponents last season with 12.61 K/9, 2.17 BB/9, 15.7% SwStr%, and a 1.18 ERA. My sole concern is with his walk rate, which was less than half his minor league rate. While it’s possible he solved his command issues, it seems more likely he’ll decline.
Even if we assume a decline, Giles is a great pick late in the draft. His downside resembles Trevor Rosenthal’s 2014 season (sans saves). While Cardinals fans suffered some indigestion from blown saves, fantasy owners were well rewarded. The Phillies are in rebuild mode, so Giles should take over as closer at some point in 2015 – just as soon as somebody needs a closer enough to acquire Jonathan Papelbon. Joaquin Benoit was in a similar situation last season and saved 11 games despite an injury. I have Giles penciled in for 15 saves.
The next reliever off the board was Yankees lefty Andrew Miller. Like Giles, his 2014 walk rate was half that of his career. Unlike Giles, Miller has been walking batters at a high rate for nearly a decade. He was used situationally last season (73 appearances, 62 innings), but it wasn’t necessary. Lefties had a dismal 0.92 xFIP compared to a 2.05 xFIP for righties. His numbers against opposite-handed foes were more than tolerable.
Interestingly, we all assume Dellin Betances (drafted in the eighth round) is the closer in New York. However, Miller has the pedigree and the pricey contract, so I wouldn’t rule him out entirely. If I was conducting a real draft today, the outside chance Miller closes for the Yankees would have me targeting him much earlier.
We can go back and forth all day arguing which pitcher is better suited for the ninth inning. Betances ability to pitch multiple innings seems like a fit for setup work. Miller’s ridiculous numbers against left-handers should be used whenever a tough lefty is up in a big spot. Relievers prefer to have defined roles so they can be mentally prepared, but this pairing screams for situational usage.
Last, but certainly not least, is Wade Davis. The best non-closing reliever in the league is marooned behind dominant closer Greg Holland. Davis’ 2014 included zero home runs allowed along with 13.63 K/9, 2.88 BB/9, 14.1% SwStr%, and a 1.00 ERA. Davis uses a ridiculous cutter (18.39% whiff rate) to stifle the competition. Unlike Mariano Rivera or Kenley Jansen, Davis also leans on a 96 mph heater (his primary pitch, 15.89% whiff rate) and a dirty hook (16.30% whiff rate). It’s always good to see a guy wield multiple weapons.
Since Davis is buried behind Holland, his draft day cost should be affordable. It will take an injury or trade to open the door for saves. I suspect Davis will be a better target in snake drafts, where the opportunity cost of passing on other positional needs will push him down the board. In auction leagues, I expect teams to have $7 bids prepared for Davis. He’ll be more expensive than some decent closers.
For those who are curious, the other players selected in the 22nd round of the slow mock include Torii Hunter, Tanner Roark, Shane Greene, Matt Cain, Brock Holt, Jesse Hahn, Kennys Vargas, and Brett Anderson. I like all of these picks late in the draft, with the exceptions of Cain and Holt.
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Good stuff Brad. Non-closing relievers are key in one of my leagues. I can’t wait to heara official word on Betances v Miller for closer situation. My guess is Betances, but there’s a non-zero chance that it ends up being Miller.
Similar to Miller, any thoughts on Boxberger now that McGee might be missing some time? Did he get drafted in this mock? He’s got value even if he doesn’t get a handful of saves. His 14 K/9 last year should get him some attention.
He got picked in the 20th round, and I’d be looking at him earlier.
K/9 and k-bb league (bb/9 too though) last year, davis, boxby and Giles were huge for me.
I’d be interested to see an article on Holds, since my league just switched to Saves + Holds.
What value would you give these guys in a saves + holds league?
I’m more interested in their cost in an auction league.
I assume Davis is going to cost a pretty penny in my league, maybe somewhere in the $15-20 range.
Seconded. I think RotoGraphs would really benefit from Shandler’s approach of skipping saves as the primary concern and instead focusing on the closer-type skills. SOLDs is a much better metric, then, if not a perfect one– it assumes high leverage use to skim the 8th/9th inning talents from the 6-7 inning filler.
I don’t know anything about Shandler’s approach, but I definitely prioritize skill over role. Although there is a time and place for a LaTroy Hawkins now and then. Melancon and Benoit were very common draft picks for me last year.
saves are still used in most leagues (but falling in popularity). I am in a 7×7, with holds and saves. The crazy part about that league is that closers all went about where they normally go in drafts (the run started late, so kimbrel went in the 8th/9th) with 12 going off the boards in the 9th-13th rounds (where the run normally is) and another 10 in rounds 14-16. Basically all of the guys with a pretty firm grip on a closing gig. Holds guys all started going in the 16th, but only one or two guys took any set up guys.
I suspect even with saves/holds or both as distinct categories, most fantasy players still value guys with the closer label.
How in the world does one NOT like Matt Cain in the 22nd round. You’re basically buying a lottery ticket there. Is it inconceivable that Cain bounces back? Even if its not all the way back to his pre-2013 form, I’ll take that gamble all day.
Drafting Brett Anderson over Matt Cain is like lighting money on fire.
If he were coming back from major surgery I would be pessimistic. Last I checked, bone chip removal is not major and generally results in improved performance.
Agreed. Cain may give you nothing (like Brett Anderson is sure to do) but he’s way more likely to settle in as a serviceable starter on a team better suited for low scoring than the Rockies.
Anderson is with the dodgers not the rockies… (pretty sure).
Cain looks like a pitcher slowing down. I expect him to be a league average guy for the most part. The thing is, league average gives you Neise, a guy we all know is not good fantasy (roughly 60th overall last season). So it is better to gamble on the guy with the chance to be elite (and cut him if he falters) than the guy with the better chance of being average.
What say you, Brad Johnson?
You’re welcome to the gamble.
It’s not like I have a horse in the race, I happen to like Anderson a little bit more than Cain. fwiw, I can’t do anything with either of them in a 12 team league. There’s a 0.0% chance I’d draft them.
If you’d like to know who I would have looked at, it appears Wily Peralta, Justin Masterson, A.J. Burnett, Yusmeiro Petit, Wade Miley, and Carlos Rodon are among the undrafted. Those are some of the names I would have preferred to try in rnd 22. All of them have a higher ceiling than the best Cain or Anderson can offer. While I wouldn’t count on anything from any of them, my intent is always to wait for opportunities. The key is to find the deGrom’s and Carrasco’s before your opponent.
Petit has a higher ceiling than Cain? I dont see how thats true. Petit through like 70 innings as a starter last year and that was his career high. His overall peripherals looked good, but a large part was the huge boost he got from his 60+ relief innings.
He throws an 88 mph fastball and relies on deception to get swings and misses. Whats going to happen when he sees guys for the second time this year, when theres a solid scouting report on him? Is that really a skill you want to rely on?
And more importantly he doesnt even have a starter job right now.
Cain has actually been a top 20 SP before, so can his ceiling really be lower than Petit’s?
Also, Petit’s Steamer projection is absurdly optimistic. He had one good season where he threw 117 innings total.
The rest of his career he had a whip over 1.30 with underwhelming K rates.
It really all comes down to strikeout rate. Petit might be able to K a batter per inning. Cain’s best case scenario is a league average strikeout rate. I’d roster him if the league was deep enough, but a 12 teamer ain’t it. Most likely, they’re both useless to me in a league of this size, but I can at least imagine a way to use Petit. Cain is a streamer.
I agree on the K rate argument, so Petit does have the better upside there. But Cain has a recent history of elite WHIP and consistently throws 200+ innings – a combination of things that I have found are pretty underrated.
By the way, thanks for taking the time to respond to comments, and to give us well thought out responses at that. You are one of the few writers who does so on a consistent basis and it is much appreciated.
I mean, forgive me but I just don’t see how some of those guys are better gambles than Matt Cain. Cain is a great example of a guy everyone writes off because he had a bad year and then got injured.
Aside from the injury, Jon Lester fit this same exact profile before 2014 and he paid huge dividends.
Hey, don’t take my word as gospel or anything. I can be wrong. I’m going to take my chances on pitchers I believe have more upside, but you should bet on Cain if you believe in him. That’s part of what I try to teach everyone. Learn to trust your preferences and let success/failure shape them. We should each play the game our own way.
Why no sleeper-love for Wily “coyote” Peralta??
Couldn’t tell you. I’m not even that high on him and I would have taken him over quite a few of the drafted guys.