Early Starting Pitcher ADP Thoughts

If you’ve been following me over on Twitter, then you’ll know that there’s nothing I love more during the offseason than a good ol’ mock draft. I love researching players and setting myself up with my own set of rankings and Draft Day depth charts, but one of the best tools for in-draft decisions is understanding public opinion.

It’s one of those rare instances in life where what everyone else thinks does, in fact, matter. Does no one seem to believe in this guy, so I can easily wait a few more rounds for him (i.e. my earlier Travis Wood dilemma)? Is he a recently outed sleeper whose public opinion has grown more mainstream thus forcing me to take him earlier than I had originally thought? These are always questions we ask ourselves during drafts and given that they usually hit us when we’re under the gun and have no more than a minute and a half (usually) to make that decision, knowing the answers ahead of time make it all the more easy to think and act on the fly.

And since we’re still talking starting pitchers over here this week and mock draft season is just getting underway — I’ve actually done six already, if you can believe that — I thought that looking at how pitching is already being viewed by many would be a good start. You’ll get a jump on things in the early goings and it also might help you make some of those tough keeper decisions you probably have sitting in front of you.

A couple of things to keep in mind before we start talking about Average Draft Position (ADP) specifics —

1. When reading through fantasy baseball magazines and other draft kits, be wary of the always over-used, “I never like to take starting pitching this early but…” Seriously, how many times have you seen that in a write-up on an experts mock draft? While I’m actually a firm subscriber to the ‘wait on pitching’ belief, you also have to understand when and why it is appropriate. If you have an extensive working knowledge of the player pool, understand the similar end-game values of a well-known starter and a lesser-known youngster and play in a league filled with a few casual fans, then yes, you wait. Many who are still playing in long-term home leagues often mistake longevity for competitiveness and while those leagues are great, they also afford you a much easier opportunity to wait on pitching. But throw 15 experts into one draft to compete against each other and suddenly every one of those late-round sleepers become well-known commodities and you aren’t able to wait on all of them as you would in your home league. And because of that, there may be more of  a need to grab one of those high-cost, front-line starters early to secure a quality pitching staff. Hence the “never this early, but…” The more competitive the league, the more difficult it becomes to start building your staff after the eighth round.

2. Understand trends and small sample sizes. Yes, this may seem overly-basic to many of you here at FanGraphs/RotoGraphs, but this site is pulling in newer and younger readers all the time and not all of them have been dragged through the comments section debates just yet. Not everyone who has been turned onto this site is a mathematical genius (yes, I’m saying this slightly tongue-in-cheek here, so don’t be offended, geniuses, I am not putting myself into your category) and while they may use some of the statistical trends we discover here, not everyone is fully aware as to why one stat is deemed acceptable after 200 plate appearances while another is regularly dismissed before 500 plate appearances are in the books. ADP works the same way. The fewer the drafts we have, the more unreliable the data becomes. Players trending upwards or downwards tend to see more volatile swings in their ADP rankings, so don’t be too misled just yet that a player is on the rise (or decline).

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed.
We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member.
1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other.
2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off.
3. Dark mode and Classic mode!
4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them.
5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects.
6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.)
7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only.
8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO.
9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members.
10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features!
We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it.

3. ADP is a guideline, not the gospel. Every league is different and while many owners have similar strategies, rarely are those strategies implemented in the same way. A league full of east coasters could lean more heavily towards Yankees, Phillies and Red Sox than they do Mariners, Dodgers and Giants which means the lesser known players on those west coast teams could be had for more of a bargain while a potential pitching prospect for the Phillies is far more well-known and at least half a dozen owners in the league are looking for him earlier than they should. If a player’s ADP says mid-fourteenth round pick, make sure you know his level of popularity. Do you have to take him in the early-thirteenth to secure him or can you wait until the end of the sixteenth? Use the ADP numbers to get a general idea, but keep in mind that there are almost always outside forces working against you.

There are obviously a few other things to keep in mind, but for the sake of an introductory ADP piece, we can leave it at that for now. I’ll be checking in on the numbers throughout the offseason, so as other things pop up, I’ll mention them. Now let’s take a look at some early ADP numbers for starting pitchers.

Obviously it’s still plenty early, so I’m not a fan of using numbers from Mock Draft Central or ESPN just yet. But to get a good starting point, you can always turn to the National Fantasy Baseball Championships (NFBC). Those who compete in the NFBC tend to be quite knowledgeable, though I have encountered some who just seem to be wealthy and playful, and therefore take their mock drafts a little more seriously. So for the early part of the offseason, I lean towards using their ADP numbers. Closer to the start of the regular season, I will incorporate them all.

Remember, NFBC leagues are 15-team, mixed roto leagues and there is no trading allowed, so those consistent, front-line starters have a little more value than in leagues where you can take some more chances and, if you fail, you can always trade for help.

NFBC Top 50 Starting Pitcher ADP

Rank Player Team Avg Pick Min Pick Max Pick
1 Clayton Kershaw LAD 5.50 4 8
2 Yu Darvish Tex 16.22 7 25
3 Max Scherzer Det 27.00 12 40
4 Jose Fernandez Mia 29.22 22 41
5 Adam Wainwright StL 32.11 19 40
6 Stephen Strasburg Was 34.83 24 49
7 Felix Hernandez Sea 43.44 33 53
8 Justin Verlander Det 43.56 35 55
9 Cliff Lee Phi 44.44 23 61
10 Madison Bumgarner SF 47.17 34 60
11 Chris Sale CWS 50.39 41 58
12 David Price TB 54.61 40 69
13 Zack Greinke LAD 61.56 50 79
14 Cole Hamels Phi 62.94 46 74
15 Anibal Sanchez Det 73.78 60 97
16 Jordan Zimmermann Was 80.56 62 99
17 Michael Wacha StL 83.39 68 100
18 Hisashi Iwakuma Sea 87.50 63 100
19 Gerrit Cole Pit 91.11 73 117
20 James Shields KC 92.11 73 114
21 Gio Gonzalez Was 96.06 70 122
22 Mat Latos Cin 101.00 84 130
23 Mike Minor Atl 101.28 79 138
24 Matt Cain SF 102.89 78 119
25 Homer Bailey Cin 110.61 69 148
26 Matt Moore TB 112.00 62 148
27 Shelby Miller StL 112.22 56 146
28 Alex Cobb TB 117.72 95 147
29 Julio Teheran Atl 123.28 65 152
30 Kris Medlen Atl 124.00 80 160
31 Jered Weaver LAA 132.78 96 176
32 Danny Salazar Cle 146.83 106 196
33 Tony Cingrani Cin 150.72 106 190
34 Hyun-jin Ryu LAD 153.22 115 201
35 Francisco Liriano Pit 154.11 106 206
36 Andrew Cashner SD 158.06 138 185
37 C.J. Wilson LAA 168.78 135 203
38 Jon Lester Bos 169.94 132 212
39 Patrick Corbin Ari 172.78 118 218
40 Jeff Samardzija ChC 174.50 141 217
41 Doug Fister Was 178.22 138 230
42 Johnny Cueto Cin 190.78 160 219
43 Clay Buchholz Bos 192.72 109 229
44 Justin Masterson Cle 204.17 158 267
45 Taijuan Walker Sea 216.00 126 264
46 R.A. Dickey Tor 218.78 151 268
47 Zack Wheeler NYM 219.28 153 257
48 CC Sabathia NYY 219.44 146 273
49 Marco Estrada Mil 226.22 166 270
50 Derek Holland Tex 227.28 164 274

These numbers are as of January 8, 2014 (Happy 79th, Elvis!), so obviously some of the numbers should be taken with a grain of salt and there’s no reason to compare them with numbers from a week ago as the data isn’t coming from a large number of mocks just yet. But it makes for a good starting point to recognize certain things, i.e. the number of young starters who broke into the majors in 2013 sitting here in the top 50 and how high some of them are going. Will a semi-unproven Michael Wacha really be a better pick than Matt Cain or James Shields or are these numbers filled with far too much hype right now? Or how about the ADP of Taijuan Walker? He doesn’t even have a rotation spot secured. Is taking Clayton Kershaw so early in the first round really a wise move?  These are some of the things that we’ll continue to look at over the next several weeks, so stay tuned. We’ve got lots more ADP work to cover.





Howard Bender has been covering fantasy sports for over 10 years on a variety of websites. In addition to his work here, you can also find him at his site, RotobuzzGuy.com, Fantasy Alarm, RotoWire and Mock Draft Central. Follow him on Twitter at @rotobuzzguy or for more direct questions or comments, email him at rotobuzzguy@gmail.com

38 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
yaboynate
12 years ago

Is taking Clayton Kershaw so early in the first round really a wise move? He doesn’t even have a rotation spot secured.

The way you said that… I thought you were serious for a few seconds. Thank you.

Spencer SilvaMember since 2020
12 years ago

Where’s by boy Sonny?! Hard to fathom the A’s don’t boast a single top 50 fantasy starter…

Spencer SilvaMember since 2020
12 years ago
Reply to  Howard Bender

I think you’re right. Between this BtBS article I saw today and the “Sonny Gray For Ace” piece that appeared a few weeks ago on RotoGraphs, it seems the hype swell is full motion. I’d be thrilled to get him between 35-45 on draft day…

bballislife17
12 years ago
Reply to  Howard Bender

Yeah at some point there’s just so little value you basically have to let him go to someone else and hope he doesn’t pan out. Someone having their 5th round Sonny Gray flop could be amusing, like all those 3rd round Brett Lawries a few years ago.

Bob
12 years ago
Reply to  Spencer Silva

Sonny Gray is listed as a reliever and has an ADP of 151… just below Salazar.

Spencer SilvaMember since 2020
12 years ago
Reply to  Bob

That sounds about right!

Sam
12 years ago

Are people really taking Fernandez ahead of Wainwright. I mean I know the guy was unbelievably good, but it was his rookie year, professional hitters and scouting departments have had an entire off-season to dissect film and adjust, and he hasn’t even had his, what seems to becoming a right-of-passage, TJ Surgery. The risk in that pick over taking Wainwright who arguable will like between 40-60 (assuming Fernandez throws between 180-200 and Wainwright does his usual 210-240) more innings than Fernandez makes that crazy to me.

The rest seems right on to me, except it looks like Price is being deflated because of questions surrounding what rotation he could be in come April.

Jay29
12 years ago
Reply to  Sam

Not to mention that Fernandez pitches for the lowly Marlins and Wainwright pitches for the studly Cardinals. Should pencil Waino in for about 5 more Ws than Jose.

Mike D
12 years ago

Not sure if this is an issue or not unless you asked the NFBC guys if you could publish this, but this info is only available to those who are participating in the NFBC.

Gee's Up, Hoes Down
12 years ago

Cain is definitely too low. He looks like the biggest bargain on that list.

Vernon Wells
12 years ago

Should I trade Pedroia and Bailey for Darvish in a keeper league?

Chicago Mark
12 years ago
Reply to  Howard Bender

Hello from Chicago! It’s the wrong forum. But Bailey as a throw-in? He’s number 25 on the list. I agree with you on depends on…. But on the surface I’d keep the Pedroia/Bailey side.

Tom B
12 years ago

Darvish, Scherzer, Fernandez 2, 3, 4?!

Man, that’s gonna break a lot of hearts this season.

I’ll take one of the next 5 guys on the list and never look back.

Sam
12 years ago
Reply to  Tom B

Agreed! The secret to fantasy pitching, IMO, is pitchers that have proven they can rack up IP with good performance rates (k/9, FIP, etc). So i perfer guys who have shown they can do that multiple times with consistancy. Darvish falls into that group for me now, 277 K, he’s earned his spot up atop that list. But i’d like to see repeat performances from Scherzer/Fernandez before making them one of the first 5-8 pitchers off the board.

Blue
12 years ago

My philosophy–particularly with pitchers–is focus on the guys you want that you can get late and don’t get caught sleeping on them. Go ahead and get your guy in the 11th round rather than biting your fingers to see if he makes it to the 14th.

JMo37
12 years ago
Reply to  Blue

I agree with going a tad early to get who you want. The idea in a draft is to get the best player available, and to fill out your team accordingly. I am not sure I would jump 11th from a projected 14th but a round maybe two for someone you really like is sound strategy.

GFuzz
12 years ago

Will the Corey Kluber society be outraged or giddy that he’s not cracking the ADP top 50?

Nyquil
12 years ago
Reply to  GFuzz

They’ll be giddy, because they get to be hipsters a little while longer.

Scruge
12 years ago

This is going to come off as snarky but I’m actually curious. Why do people play in leagues that don’t allow trading?

Scruge
12 years ago
Reply to  Howard Bender

I’ve played in some fairly high stakes leagues and personally I would never consider one without trading. What’s the point? It’s just a big “who’s best at drafting” game? Why not just play daily leagues at draftday or something, then.

Fargle Bargle
12 years ago
Reply to  Scruge

The NFBC has leagues where the entry fee is $10k and one that is $20k. The last thing you want in those leagues is trading and potential collusion.

Vernon Wells
12 years ago

Would you guys trade Goldschmidt and Ellsbury for Trout in a dynasty league with no restrictions/salaries?

Vernon Wells
12 years ago

Thanks! Really hard to evaluate when Goldy and Ellsbury each finished as top 10 players in my league last year. Thanks again.

Arquimedez Pozo
12 years ago

You should clarify that current NFBC ADP values are *not* from mock drafts but rather from $150 or $400 or $1000 entry fee Draft Champions leagues, so they carry a little more weight than mock draft ADPs.

Ashman
12 years ago

How would you rank these pitchers by keeper value in 2014 and 2015? League counts K/9

Archer – $10
Smyly – $2
Cashner – $3
Salazar – $10
Kluber – $2
Wood – $10
Gray – $10

Chicago Mark
12 years ago
Reply to  Ashman

Dang, I’m not the only one up at 4Am. Is Smiley going to be in the rotation? I strongly believe less is more here.
Kluber
Cashner
Smyly (if in the rotation)
Salazar
Gray
Archer
Wood
By the way, if Archer were in the AL West I’d have him ahead of Gray.

James R.
12 years ago

In a Rotoleague that includes Holds, and excludes Strikeouts, I wonder how heavily the ” K rate ” influences most Mock Drafts. For instance, would a pitcher like Danny Salazar even appear in the top 50, were it not for the strikeouts? And would Bartolo Colon appear. His success was evident with the WHIP, ERA and Win totals last season, but his K rate is low so he does not appear in this list.

Grant
12 years ago

I like Wheeler at #47, but I don’t think he’ll stay that low for long.

centerfield ballhawk
12 years ago
Reply to  Grant

His walk rate is a litle wonky. I’m not sure that I trust him to be a top forty starter… so #47 sounds about right.

Goose.
12 years ago

There’s sooooo much value late. I’ll wait and take Fister, CC, or Cueto over drafting the unproven-but-trendy guys earlier, thankyouverymuch.

Not to mention waiting even more and still getting value from guys like Lance Lynn, Beachy, Wood, Kuroda, Griffin, Parker, Peavy, Lohse, and on and on…

Goose.
12 years ago

Also – just to throw it out there. Any thoughts on where Tanaka could be in this mix?

Early, early, I know…