Early Starting Pitcher ADP Thoughts
If you’ve been following me over on Twitter, then you’ll know that there’s nothing I love more during the offseason than a good ol’ mock draft. I love researching players and setting myself up with my own set of rankings and Draft Day depth charts, but one of the best tools for in-draft decisions is understanding public opinion.
It’s one of those rare instances in life where what everyone else thinks does, in fact, matter. Does no one seem to believe in this guy, so I can easily wait a few more rounds for him (i.e. my earlier Travis Wood dilemma)? Is he a recently outed sleeper whose public opinion has grown more mainstream thus forcing me to take him earlier than I had originally thought? These are always questions we ask ourselves during drafts and given that they usually hit us when we’re under the gun and have no more than a minute and a half (usually) to make that decision, knowing the answers ahead of time make it all the more easy to think and act on the fly.
And since we’re still talking starting pitchers over here this week and mock draft season is just getting underway — I’ve actually done six already, if you can believe that — I thought that looking at how pitching is already being viewed by many would be a good start. You’ll get a jump on things in the early goings and it also might help you make some of those tough keeper decisions you probably have sitting in front of you.
A couple of things to keep in mind before we start talking about Average Draft Position (ADP) specifics —
1. When reading through fantasy baseball magazines and other draft kits, be wary of the always over-used, “I never like to take starting pitching this early but…” Seriously, how many times have you seen that in a write-up on an experts mock draft? While I’m actually a firm subscriber to the ‘wait on pitching’ belief, you also have to understand when and why it is appropriate. If you have an extensive working knowledge of the player pool, understand the similar end-game values of a well-known starter and a lesser-known youngster and play in a league filled with a few casual fans, then yes, you wait. Many who are still playing in long-term home leagues often mistake longevity for competitiveness and while those leagues are great, they also afford you a much easier opportunity to wait on pitching. But throw 15 experts into one draft to compete against each other and suddenly every one of those late-round sleepers become well-known commodities and you aren’t able to wait on all of them as you would in your home league. And because of that, there may be more of a need to grab one of those high-cost, front-line starters early to secure a quality pitching staff. Hence the “never this early, but…” The more competitive the league, the more difficult it becomes to start building your staff after the eighth round.
2. Understand trends and small sample sizes. Yes, this may seem overly-basic to many of you here at FanGraphs/RotoGraphs, but this site is pulling in newer and younger readers all the time and not all of them have been dragged through the comments section debates just yet. Not everyone who has been turned onto this site is a mathematical genius (yes, I’m saying this slightly tongue-in-cheek here, so don’t be offended, geniuses, I am not putting myself into your category) and while they may use some of the statistical trends we discover here, not everyone is fully aware as to why one stat is deemed acceptable after 200 plate appearances while another is regularly dismissed before 500 plate appearances are in the books. ADP works the same way. The fewer the drafts we have, the more unreliable the data becomes. Players trending upwards or downwards tend to see more volatile swings in their ADP rankings, so don’t be too misled just yet that a player is on the rise (or decline).
3. ADP is a guideline, not the gospel. Every league is different and while many owners have similar strategies, rarely are those strategies implemented in the same way. A league full of east coasters could lean more heavily towards Yankees, Phillies and Red Sox than they do Mariners, Dodgers and Giants which means the lesser known players on those west coast teams could be had for more of a bargain while a potential pitching prospect for the Phillies is far more well-known and at least half a dozen owners in the league are looking for him earlier than they should. If a player’s ADP says mid-fourteenth round pick, make sure you know his level of popularity. Do you have to take him in the early-thirteenth to secure him or can you wait until the end of the sixteenth? Use the ADP numbers to get a general idea, but keep in mind that there are almost always outside forces working against you.
There are obviously a few other things to keep in mind, but for the sake of an introductory ADP piece, we can leave it at that for now. I’ll be checking in on the numbers throughout the offseason, so as other things pop up, I’ll mention them. Now let’s take a look at some early ADP numbers for starting pitchers.
Obviously it’s still plenty early, so I’m not a fan of using numbers from Mock Draft Central or ESPN just yet. But to get a good starting point, you can always turn to the National Fantasy Baseball Championships (NFBC). Those who compete in the NFBC tend to be quite knowledgeable, though I have encountered some who just seem to be wealthy and playful, and therefore take their mock drafts a little more seriously. So for the early part of the offseason, I lean towards using their ADP numbers. Closer to the start of the regular season, I will incorporate them all.
Remember, NFBC leagues are 15-team, mixed roto leagues and there is no trading allowed, so those consistent, front-line starters have a little more value than in leagues where you can take some more chances and, if you fail, you can always trade for help.
NFBC Top 50 Starting Pitcher ADP
| Rank | Player | Team | Avg Pick | Min Pick | Max Pick |
| 1 | Clayton Kershaw | LAD | 5.50 | 4 | 8 |
| 2 | Yu Darvish | Tex | 16.22 | 7 | 25 |
| 3 | Max Scherzer | Det | 27.00 | 12 | 40 |
| 4 | Jose Fernandez | Mia | 29.22 | 22 | 41 |
| 5 | Adam Wainwright | StL | 32.11 | 19 | 40 |
| 6 | Stephen Strasburg | Was | 34.83 | 24 | 49 |
| 7 | Felix Hernandez | Sea | 43.44 | 33 | 53 |
| 8 | Justin Verlander | Det | 43.56 | 35 | 55 |
| 9 | Cliff Lee | Phi | 44.44 | 23 | 61 |
| 10 | Madison Bumgarner | SF | 47.17 | 34 | 60 |
| 11 | Chris Sale | CWS | 50.39 | 41 | 58 |
| 12 | David Price | TB | 54.61 | 40 | 69 |
| 13 | Zack Greinke | LAD | 61.56 | 50 | 79 |
| 14 | Cole Hamels | Phi | 62.94 | 46 | 74 |
| 15 | Anibal Sanchez | Det | 73.78 | 60 | 97 |
| 16 | Jordan Zimmermann | Was | 80.56 | 62 | 99 |
| 17 | Michael Wacha | StL | 83.39 | 68 | 100 |
| 18 | Hisashi Iwakuma | Sea | 87.50 | 63 | 100 |
| 19 | Gerrit Cole | Pit | 91.11 | 73 | 117 |
| 20 | James Shields | KC | 92.11 | 73 | 114 |
| 21 | Gio Gonzalez | Was | 96.06 | 70 | 122 |
| 22 | Mat Latos | Cin | 101.00 | 84 | 130 |
| 23 | Mike Minor | Atl | 101.28 | 79 | 138 |
| 24 | Matt Cain | SF | 102.89 | 78 | 119 |
| 25 | Homer Bailey | Cin | 110.61 | 69 | 148 |
| 26 | Matt Moore | TB | 112.00 | 62 | 148 |
| 27 | Shelby Miller | StL | 112.22 | 56 | 146 |
| 28 | Alex Cobb | TB | 117.72 | 95 | 147 |
| 29 | Julio Teheran | Atl | 123.28 | 65 | 152 |
| 30 | Kris Medlen | Atl | 124.00 | 80 | 160 |
| 31 | Jered Weaver | LAA | 132.78 | 96 | 176 |
| 32 | Danny Salazar | Cle | 146.83 | 106 | 196 |
| 33 | Tony Cingrani | Cin | 150.72 | 106 | 190 |
| 34 | Hyun-jin Ryu | LAD | 153.22 | 115 | 201 |
| 35 | Francisco Liriano | Pit | 154.11 | 106 | 206 |
| 36 | Andrew Cashner | SD | 158.06 | 138 | 185 |
| 37 | C.J. Wilson | LAA | 168.78 | 135 | 203 |
| 38 | Jon Lester | Bos | 169.94 | 132 | 212 |
| 39 | Patrick Corbin | Ari | 172.78 | 118 | 218 |
| 40 | Jeff Samardzija | ChC | 174.50 | 141 | 217 |
| 41 | Doug Fister | Was | 178.22 | 138 | 230 |
| 42 | Johnny Cueto | Cin | 190.78 | 160 | 219 |
| 43 | Clay Buchholz | Bos | 192.72 | 109 | 229 |
| 44 | Justin Masterson | Cle | 204.17 | 158 | 267 |
| 45 | Taijuan Walker | Sea | 216.00 | 126 | 264 |
| 46 | R.A. Dickey | Tor | 218.78 | 151 | 268 |
| 47 | Zack Wheeler | NYM | 219.28 | 153 | 257 |
| 48 | CC Sabathia | NYY | 219.44 | 146 | 273 |
| 49 | Marco Estrada | Mil | 226.22 | 166 | 270 |
| 50 | Derek Holland | Tex | 227.28 | 164 | 274 |
These numbers are as of January 8, 2014 (Happy 79th, Elvis!), so obviously some of the numbers should be taken with a grain of salt and there’s no reason to compare them with numbers from a week ago as the data isn’t coming from a large number of mocks just yet. But it makes for a good starting point to recognize certain things, i.e. the number of young starters who broke into the majors in 2013 sitting here in the top 50 and how high some of them are going. Will a semi-unproven Michael Wacha really be a better pick than Matt Cain or James Shields or are these numbers filled with far too much hype right now? Or how about the ADP of Taijuan Walker? He doesn’t even have a rotation spot secured. Is taking Clayton Kershaw so early in the first round really a wise move? These are some of the things that we’ll continue to look at over the next several weeks, so stay tuned. We’ve got lots more ADP work to cover.
Howard Bender has been covering fantasy sports for over 10 years on a variety of websites. In addition to his work here, you can also find him at his site, RotobuzzGuy.com, Fantasy Alarm, RotoWire and Mock Draft Central. Follow him on Twitter at @rotobuzzguy or for more direct questions or comments, email him at rotobuzzguy@gmail.com
Is taking Clayton Kershaw so early in the first round really a wise move? He doesn’t even have a rotation spot secured.
The way you said that… I thought you were serious for a few seconds. Thank you.
Whoops. That Kershaw line was added in a sentence too early. My bad. Fixed now.
Where’s by boy Sonny?! Hard to fathom the A’s don’t boast a single top 50 fantasy starter…
Sonny Gray will soon be “outed” and his ADP will climb to the point where he’ll no longer be a bargain….just like Wacha and Cole and Miller and Salazar. My hope is that wouldn’t be the case, but we all know how it goes once some pundit jumps onto his soapbox.
I think you’re right. Between this BtBS article I saw today and the “Sonny Gray For Ace” piece that appeared a few weeks ago on RotoGraphs, it seems the hype swell is full motion. I’d be thrilled to get him between 35-45 on draft day…
Yeah at some point there’s just so little value you basically have to let him go to someone else and hope he doesn’t pan out. Someone having their 5th round Sonny Gray flop could be amusing, like all those 3rd round Brett Lawries a few years ago.
Sonny Gray is listed as a reliever and has an ADP of 151… just below Salazar.
That sounds about right!
Are people really taking Fernandez ahead of Wainwright. I mean I know the guy was unbelievably good, but it was his rookie year, professional hitters and scouting departments have had an entire off-season to dissect film and adjust, and he hasn’t even had his, what seems to becoming a right-of-passage, TJ Surgery. The risk in that pick over taking Wainwright who arguable will like between 40-60 (assuming Fernandez throws between 180-200 and Wainwright does his usual 210-240) more innings than Fernandez makes that crazy to me.
The rest seems right on to me, except it looks like Price is being deflated because of questions surrounding what rotation he could be in come April.
Not to mention that Fernandez pitches for the lowly Marlins and Wainwright pitches for the studly Cardinals. Should pencil Waino in for about 5 more Ws than Jose.
Not sure if this is an issue or not unless you asked the NFBC guys if you could publish this, but this info is only available to those who are participating in the NFBC.
Thanks Mike. Yes, I do have permission from the powers that be at the NFBC. If you follow me on Twitter or Facebook, you’ll see a ton of stuff I do with something I created last year called the Mock Draft Army and the NFBC boys are on board with it.
Cain is definitely too low. He looks like the biggest bargain on that list.
Should I trade Pedroia and Bailey for Darvish in a keeper league?
Depends on league size, keeper costs, how many pitchers you’d be holding, etc. Bailey (assuming Homer) is nothing but a throw-in, IMO, so he doesn’t affect my decision. Comes down to Pedroia vs Darvish and who has more value in your league and to your team.
Hello from Chicago! It’s the wrong forum. But Bailey as a throw-in? He’s number 25 on the list. I agree with you on depends on…. But on the surface I’d keep the Pedroia/Bailey side.
Darvish, Scherzer, Fernandez 2, 3, 4?!
Man, that’s gonna break a lot of hearts this season.
I’ll take one of the next 5 guys on the list and never look back.
Agreed! The secret to fantasy pitching, IMO, is pitchers that have proven they can rack up IP with good performance rates (k/9, FIP, etc). So i perfer guys who have shown they can do that multiple times with consistancy. Darvish falls into that group for me now, 277 K, he’s earned his spot up atop that list. But i’d like to see repeat performances from Scherzer/Fernandez before making them one of the first 5-8 pitchers off the board.
My philosophy–particularly with pitchers–is focus on the guys you want that you can get late and don’t get caught sleeping on them. Go ahead and get your guy in the 11th round rather than biting your fingers to see if he makes it to the 14th.
I agree with going a tad early to get who you want. The idea in a draft is to get the best player available, and to fill out your team accordingly. I am not sure I would jump 11th from a projected 14th but a round maybe two for someone you really like is sound strategy.
Will the Corey Kluber society be outraged or giddy that he’s not cracking the ADP top 50?
They’ll be giddy, because they get to be hipsters a little while longer.
This is going to come off as snarky but I’m actually curious. Why do people play in leagues that don’t allow trading?
Not snarky at all. The NFBC doesn’t allow trading due to the money at stake. If you’ve ever played in a league where there’s a cash prize, even a small one, you’ve seen how people can get ridiculous arguing about the validity of deals. Crybabies shouting collusion and all that sort of stuff. Taking away the trading removes all of that.
I’ve played in some fairly high stakes leagues and personally I would never consider one without trading. What’s the point? It’s just a big “who’s best at drafting” game? Why not just play daily leagues at draftday or something, then.
You’re preaching to the choir, my friend. You need a real strong draft and a handful of savvy waiver pick-ups to get the job done. There’s a lot of luck involved as opposed to being a smart and savvy wheeler-dealer.
The NFBC has leagues where the entry fee is $10k and one that is $20k. The last thing you want in those leagues is trading and potential collusion.
Would you guys trade Goldschmidt and Ellsbury for Trout in a dynasty league with no restrictions/salaries?
As much as I love Goldy, I would do that. Acquiring Trout is a huge deal. You can find a power-hitting 1B year after year, but Trout is a special kind of player. Ellsbury, in my opinion, is highly overrated.
Thanks! Really hard to evaluate when Goldy and Ellsbury each finished as top 10 players in my league last year. Thanks again.
You should clarify that current NFBC ADP values are *not* from mock drafts but rather from $150 or $400 or $1000 entry fee Draft Champions leagues, so they carry a little more weight than mock draft ADPs.
How would you rank these pitchers by keeper value in 2014 and 2015? League counts K/9
Archer – $10
Smyly – $2
Cashner – $3
Salazar – $10
Kluber – $2
Wood – $10
Gray – $10
Dang, I’m not the only one up at 4Am. Is Smiley going to be in the rotation? I strongly believe less is more here.
Kluber
Cashner
Smyly (if in the rotation)
Salazar
Gray
Archer
Wood
By the way, if Archer were in the AL West I’d have him ahead of Gray.
In a Rotoleague that includes Holds, and excludes Strikeouts, I wonder how heavily the ” K rate ” influences most Mock Drafts. For instance, would a pitcher like Danny Salazar even appear in the top 50, were it not for the strikeouts? And would Bartolo Colon appear. His success was evident with the WHIP, ERA and Win totals last season, but his K rate is low so he does not appear in this list.
I like Wheeler at #47, but I don’t think he’ll stay that low for long.
His walk rate is a litle wonky. I’m not sure that I trust him to be a top forty starter… so #47 sounds about right.
There’s sooooo much value late. I’ll wait and take Fister, CC, or Cueto over drafting the unproven-but-trendy guys earlier, thankyouverymuch.
Not to mention waiting even more and still getting value from guys like Lance Lynn, Beachy, Wood, Kuroda, Griffin, Parker, Peavy, Lohse, and on and on…
Also – just to throw it out there. Any thoughts on where Tanaka could be in this mix?
Early, early, I know…