ADP, Pt. III: In Which Rounds Do Sleepers Sleep?
I introduce to you today the third part of an ongoing and rather aimless series regarding my research on average draft position, or ADP. Yesterday, I reprised an earlier piece of work in which I look at how often players “busted,” on average, in certain points of drafts. A bust included both low production by (1) poor performance, (2) lack of playing time due to injury, or (3) both.
Before I proceed, I’d like to make a quick acknowledgment. I’ve been asked on multiple occasions how often busts are attributable to injury rather than poor performance. Unfortunately, I would have to comb the data and handle each red flag on a case-by-case basis. While it’s not totally unruly, I don’t really have time to tackle it right now. I was also asked how age might play a part in ADP. I don’t have an answer for that yet, but I do have future research planned that examines the upward bias regarding organizational (or universal) top prospects. Again, it’s something for a future post, but not today.
Lastly: scroll to the bottom for quick results on yesterday’s poll and for another pseudo-interactive segment.
On to the heart of the matter. The title of the post says it all, but it could alternatively be stated as…
When is it OK to start reaching?
As should be expected, players selected earlier in drafts tend to be more reliable than those selected later in drafts. However, there reaches a point where any kind of edge held by higher-ranked players over lower-ranked players starts to wane or disappear.
I would construct a table that depicts, round by round, how players drafted at certain points in a draft outperform their expectations, but a couple of quick sentences might better describe what historical ADP data tells us.
First: one-eighth of players who rank anywhere from 11th- to 90th-best in terms of end-of-season rankings will be drafted anywhere from the 201st to 299th picks. In other words, of the players you expect to provide 2nd- to 9th-round value, one in every eight will come from the 21st through 30th rounds. That’s pretty wild. Like, you know it’s true, intuitively, but you know you would be shamed for ever reaching that early in a draft.
Additionally, players drafted outside the top 300 gain traction starting in the 5th round. On average, about seven players drafted 300th or later will wind up ranking 41st through 80th, equating to roughly two per draft round. Things really pick up in the 9th round, with more than 80 players drafted 300th or later occupying slots 81 through 150 in the end-of-season ranking — good for roughly three per draft round.
It’s inexact. It’s a ballpark figure. But the crux of the matter is players become less reliable as draft progresses. And that makes sense, because if it didn’t, the draft would be deeply flawed, or we, as rational human beings, would be deeply flawed. Which we are. So many that’s not out of the question.
But really, history shows us that unreliability permeates the draft as early as the second round. And when I talk about unreliability, I mean beyond what we already perceive unreliability to be in terms of baseball’s unconquered statistical frontiers and general ebb and flow in player performance. Reliability happens early and often.
I hereby un-bury the lede and declare: it’s OK to reach. In case you were self-conscious about it.
Specifically, beginning in the 9th round.
I averaged the ADPs for each end-of-season ranking as aggregated by round. In simpler terms, I looked at, say, the top 10 players at the end of the season from 2012 through 2015 and I averaged their ADPs as a group to create what could be considered round-by-round ADPs, the results of which are depicted in the table below.
| End-of-Season Rank | Average ADP |
| 1-10 | 66 |
| 11-20 | 97 |
| 21-30 | 93 |
| 31-40 | 108 |
| 41-50 | 127 |
| 51-60 | 141 |
| 61-70 | 172 |
| 71-80 | 181 |
| 81-90 | 242 |
| 91-100 | 218 |
| 101-110 | 185 |
| 111-120 | 208 |
| 121-130 | 258 |
| 131-140 | 209 |
| 141-150 | 229 |
As should be expected, the average ADP for the 10 best players is lower than any other tier. This trend continues for a bit — the next 10 are better than the 10 after them, and so on — until the draft reaches the 9th round. Then all hell breaks loose.
That was a bit hyperbolic, but the point stands: the trend disintegrates around the 81st through 90th picks, as the average ADP fluctuates unpredictably relative to the steady progression of the first eight rounds.
Thus, while it’s perfectly reasonable to start reaching as early as the second round, it should be socially acceptable to reach, and reach far, as early as the 9th round. Given how often players bust — again, whether by injury or bad performance, who’s to say — and how often unheralded players reign supreme, there’s no problem reaching for someone you like. But if you reach, and you blow it — and, at the same time, you inevitably pass up on a solid pick ranked concurrently with that point of the draft — then you risk looking like a dingus. The human ego is too fragile to shoulder such shame.
So that’s it. That’s the takeaway. Don’t be afraid to reach early. But don’t reach too far. There are a whole lot of other elements to that advice — namely, that players far down the draft board will likely be there in a couple of rounds anyway. But if it’s the 10th round, and you like someone in the 13th round, sure, why not?
Results from Yesterday’s Poll
Yesterday, I presented some sobering statistics regarding first-round draft picks and asked readers to predict who they thought would be 2016’s busts, by varying degrees of bustitude. As of very late last night, the polls have informally closed and the results are in. Out of 21 respondents…
Six to fall outside top 20, in order:
Kris Bryant (21), Carlos Correa (19), Manny Machado (18), Nolan Arenado/Giancarlo Stanton (16), Clayton Kershaw (13)
Among them, four to fall outside top 100, in order:
Bryant (19), Correa (18), Arenado/Machado (13)
Among them, one to fall outside top 300:
Machado (5)
While it’s a small sample size, so to speak, it’s an interesting exercise in ceilings and floors. For example, Correa garnered the second most votes to finish outside the top 100 but received less than half as many votes as Machado to fall outside the top 300, suggesting a lower ceiling but a higher floor. Or, instead, that he’s less volatile than Machado — which, I admit, is kind of funny to me. Meanwhile, Bryant, unanimously voted to fall outside the top 20 (given the parameters of the poll), did not receive the most votes to fall outside the top 300. Perception is so interesting.
At the other end of the spectrum…
Fewest votes to fall outside top 20, in order:
Paul Goldschmidt (2), Mike Trout (3), Bryce Harper (6)
Fewest votes to fall outside top 100, in order:
Trout (0), Goldschmidt (1), Harper/Kershaw/Josh Donaldson (3)
Fewest votes to fall outside top 300:
Trout/Goldschmidt/Donaldson (0)
Oh, yeah, my response to the poll, with almost zero explanation
Except for this disclaimer: these are listed in no specific order.
20+: Harper, Correa, Arenado, Machado, Stanton, Bryant
100+: Correa, Arenado, Stanton, Bryant
300+: Stanton
Because I can’t help but bank on the annual Stantonian freak injury, and can’t bear to think of Kershaw suffering an elbow-related one himself.
And now, as promised, another poll
This is less structured than yesterday’s question. Just do me this:
- Per NFBC ADP, pick a player currently being drafted between picks 200 through 299 to rank among the top 100 players at the end of the season.
- Pick a player with an ADP of 300 or higher to rank among the year-end top-150.
I know, not quite as exciting as yesterday. Still, the link provided in the first bullet point offers an interesting array of talent. I won’t name names to prevent coloring anyone’s perspectives, but man. Seems like 2016 is deeper than the typical draft.
Epilogue
I realized I never really answered the question stated in the title of the post. I kind of attacked it in a roundabout way. Frankly, sleepers exist throughout the late rounds of the draft. There’s no formula that tells you when sleepers are most likely to emerge in a draft — or, at least, I don’t have a formula for you. That’s why I think when to start reaching might be the better tidbit worth knowing.
A couple jump out at me, but I like Schoop to crack the top 100 and JJ Hoover to crack the top 150.
I like the Schoop play.
Also, thanks for supporting! So quickly, too.
This site does awesome work and awesome work should always be supported!
Not sure what it says about my team, but I have a slew of players at 200+ ADP in a keeper league at $5 each (Schoop, Storen, Vizcaino, Gausman); it either sets up really well for value, or dumpster diving in week 3.
Beat me to Schoop to crack the top 100. I like Niese to crack the top 150. Ballpark/Aggresive Defensive Shifts/Searage Magic can go a long way.
Matt Holliday stays healthy and cracks the top 100 again, easily. (i’d also put down a wager on Wil Myers and Josh Reddick doing the same.
For the 300+, my league uses holds so Carter Capps is the easy choice (i have him pre-draft ranked as the #64 overall player … we use k/9, too!)
I like Capps too, even as a standard league play (strong ratios and Ks) – it was between him and Hoover for me and I like the (relative) stability of Hoover’s role over Capps.
i traded him in a keeper league last year – thought for sure they were going to force him to “fix” his delivery.
They didn’t, and the guy i traded him too isn’t in the league this year. I’m very excited to redraft him and start his keeper clock again.
I honestly think he could pretty easily sneak into the closer’s role, too.
1. Joe Ross
2. Domingo Santana
honorable mentions: 1. Wil Myers & Rich Hill 2. AJ Reed & Jerad Eickhoff
Want to say Devon Travis to crack top 100, but sounds like he’s not going to be back in the lineup soon enough. I’ll say Kevin Gausman instead and Lance Lynn to break top 150.
Lynn had Tommy John surgery in November, so he’s not pitching enough to get into the top 150
Justin Bour to crack the top 100
Mark Canha for top 150
200-299 pick is probably Wil Myers, although Matt Holliday is very enticing.
300+ I would probably pick Tony Watson, as I think the Pirates still want to trade Melancon.
Semien to crack top 100
Capps to also crack top 100 (even though the poll is only for top 150)
Couldn’t the data also be interpreted differently, say, that the 9th round is when people typically start reaching and thus producing the variability in end of season ranking?
Possibly, but the act of reaching for a guy en masse makes him no longer a reach at all. For example, if Lindor is a “true” 8th-rounder, but everyone reaches for him in the 6th round, so much so that his ADP is in the 50s-60s, then he is, instead, actually a 6th-rounder. ADP also represents a distribution of outcomes; the average score reflects not only drafts during which people reached but also ones in which people passed. Again, using Lindor as an example: his highest ADP of 41 represents the people who reached for him, where his low ADP of 88 shows how far people were willing to pass. Thus, the “average” component of ADP essentially adjusts, albeit simply, for these ranges of outcomes.
I guess the really short version of the answer is: no, because I think ADP in aggregate washes out those effects.
Got it. I was reading the table wrong–I switched the columns in my brain so that I was reading draft round in the first column and average end of season ranking in the second. It all makes sense now, though the table I made in my brain would be interesting to see as well.
Nevermind I just saw your other article. I’m a little behind today!
All good! It’s basically a Monday today, right?
1. Piscotty/Eduardo Rodriguez to crack top 100
2. Jake Lamb to crack top 150
1. Marcell Ozuna top 100
2. Jon Niese top 150
3. Phenomenal use of “dingus”
200-299 riser – V-Mart
300+ riser – Gallo
1. Gerardo Parra to crack the top 100
2. Jarrod Dyson to crack the top 150
Gerardo is already being drafted inside of 175.
Parra 215 on NFBC adp. Probably rising with his Colorado signing.
Justin Turner crack top 100. Especially in OBP leagues.
James Paxton and/or Trevor Bauer (cheating a little on his ADP of ~290) to be top 150 players.
#1: Scott Kazmir
#2: Pedro Alvarez
Odd thing I noticed: someone in NFBC picked Urias @ 262. ??? Love him for another year, but 2016?
This analysis suggests to me that “stars & scrubs” is a more than viable auction strategy.
All of the research I’ve conducted this (and last) preseason has led me to this exact conclusion as well.
Alex great work.
Have you looked at year by year closer ADP and the impact on bust/reach? This year according to NFBC ADP Familia (83), Rosenthal (84), Melancon (88), Britton (89) all fall in that 9th round. And Giles is just outside at 91. With a 50% turnover rate at the position it would seem like this has a profound impact on your research.
From 2012-15, a total of eight closers were drafted in the 9th round (81-90), specifically. Not one of them earned back their draft price, and only Aroldis Chapman (81st, 2014) finished in the top 100 (97th).
Prior to me looking this up for you, I was already among the camp that spends very little on relievers because of aforementioned turnover rate.
Wow – best evidence to date to not pay for closers.
Went against this advice last year and also drafted catchers early – after reading these articles it is pretty clear while I finished 6th after winning back to back years.
Also Carlos Gomez in the first round…
I completely agree with you. I guess what I was trying to get at is that if there is a 46% chance that one of the top 100 players does not finish in the top 100 that number is inflated a bit because of closers (and catchers as the other user commented). In your magical round of 9 for example, since nearly half those picks are closers the ADP is going to be insanely low due to your 67% bust rate. That’s assuming ADP is true aggregate data. I say that since most people do not buy early on closers. In conclusion of my long draw out explanation/question I think your chance of a bust is much less in rounds 8-10 should chose a position other than closer/catcher. No? Meaning I wouldn’t reach in those rounds assuming I have the option to choose a position player. Say, Beltre? That being said I love finding me some Joc Pederson (2015), Rendon (2014), Chris Davis (2012) in those late rounds.
Right. The composition of the draft, in terms of timing, certainly affects things. Looking at the data, about 13 catchers and relief pitchers (as a group) are drafted in the top 100, with a range of 12 to 14. So the ADP patterns have been pretty consistent every year. So while RPs and Cs do artificially push down the bust rate, it’s just the nature of the beast. But yes, the flip side of the coin is the bust rate for other positions around this same time during the draft is likely less severe.
Maeda to crack the top 100.
Oliveira cracks the top 150.
I am working through pitching ranks at present so here are two for me.
To crack the top 100: Wei-Yen Chen
To crack the top 150: R.A. Dickey
I like the NL move for Chen and Dickey could have a 4+ ERA and still jump into the top 150 with some luck / wins as a result from the potent TOR offense.
I like Chen too. The move to the NL should help even if the Marlins move the fences in.
I like Alvarez to crack the top 100—if he signs with Baltimore.
And here’s a real reach: Kyle Gibson to crack the top 150. As somebody (I forget who) on RG pointed out, after extremely low K rates in April and May, his K rate spiked the last 4 months of the season. This is definitely risky as the Twins like the “pitch to contact” philosophy, but that’s what reaching is all about.
Love this kind of stuff. Keep it up, Alex.
Great stuff, Alex.
Crack the top 100: Justin Turner
Crack the top 150: Jackie Bradley jr.
Marcus Semien
Rubby de la Rosa
Top 100: Jonathan Schoop
Top 150: Domingo Santana
Top 100: Dellin Betances
Top 150: Carter Capps
Top 100: Semien (bonus call: Maeda)
Top 150: Capps
Top 100: Gausman (Next picks would be Myers and Ozuna)
Top 150 Velasquez
Top 100: Matt Holliday (with Jayson Werth a close second)
Top 150: Kris Medlen (with Brett Anderson a close second)
Alex Chamberlain is clearly trending . . .
Gausman/ 100
Jake Lamb / 150
Wil Myers/100
Aaron Sanchez/150
Piscotty/100
Finnegan/150
I’ve combed through your last few posts this topic, and I can’t find a definitive link to what you used for your EOS rankings, or your ADP’s.
In a previous post, you link here for EOS rankings: http://razzball.com/2015-fantasy-baseball-rankings/
However there are only positional EOS rankings listed, and you seem to have used complete EOS rankings.
I’m also still interested in where the ADP data is coming from. I can’t find it anywhere.
I used web.archive.org to visit old versions of pages. (Changed things up since that first post.) I used historical versions of Razzball’s Player Rater for EOS, and I used FantasyPros’ ADP.
Awesome, thanks!
top 100 = marcell ozuna
top 150 = jose peraza
I like Justin Turner to crack the top hundo. (Schoop)
Top 150 – a reliever like Jepsen could sneak up there. But I’ll vote for Domingo Santana